Author Topic: Weighing choices (Read 2634 times)

Jenett · « **on:** February 22, 2015, 03:53:42 pm »

My basic question: When you're looking at broad, substantial choices in your life (things like where you live, how you spend your time and energy, etc.) how do you weigh the choices? Which things matter to you most? What tools do you use for things that can matter quite a lot, but aren't always easy to discern before you have to make a choice?

I've got methods that work for me, but for Reasons, am currently quite curious about what other people do in case there's something I can add to my repertoire.

The Reasons: I was told a few weeks ago that my job is being eliminated due to budget cuts. I was already looking at other options, I've been getting interviews, but nothing that's turned into an offer yet (competitive field) but I also have a long notice period due to a solid union contract.

Whatever next job is going to mean moving again (which is fine: I've done two cross-country moves in the past) and I largely approach job hunting as a fascinating game of 'what if' - what would my life be like if I lived here? or there? Or had this kind of library job as opposed to that kind?

But part of what I'm interested in are things like workplace dynamics, which is a thing you can get hints of at interviews, but study in detail. Or what it's actually like to live in a place I haven't lived before - some things I know and can guess at, others I can't.

My usual practices have involved research (for the things I can figure out before applying, like 'do I want to live there' and 'is that salary vaguely feasible for living near enough there the commute isn't horrible'?)

And then a combination of talking it through with a trusted friend, sitting with possibilities and figuring out what I need to pay particular attention to, divination, meditation, and sometimes ritual (though for various reasons, I prefer to not push a particular direction in the job hunt beyond 'let me find the job that will let me flourish'.

However, for health reasons, ritual, divination, and meditation are all a lot trickier for me right now (for reasons I can go into if it's relevant). I've been leaning more on friends (and other people I know) for help with some of that, but I'd like to see if there's other options I can fold into the sorting process that fit the combination of sometimes very limited energy/focus/attention, and that limited energy/focus needing to go both to my current job and to writing cover letters and dealing with interviews.

dragonfaerie · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:05:51 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171427

My basic question: When you're looking at broad, substantial choices in your life (things like where you live, how you spend your time and energy, etc.) how do you weigh the choices? Which things matter to you most? What tools do you use for things that can matter quite a lot, but aren't always easy to discern before you have to make a choice?

I tend to journal a lot. I'm not the sort of person who has deep introspective conversations with friends very often. Sometimes I don't even have them with my husband, unless we're talking about choices that would impact him as well.

Frankly, I haven't had room for a lot of introspective debate in many of my major choices. They were more driven by outside influences. When we bought our house, for instance, I was limited by my job (which is too specialized to do much of anywhere else) and how much we could afford. That I ended up buying near where I grew up was more for economic reasons and knowing the area than any sentimentality.

What matters to me most is a balance between practicality and pipe dreams. This is a starter house, not my dream house. My job makes very good money, but it bores me. I'm happy with my social life, which is why I work... to make money to go to scifi conventions and buy board games and such. I think happiness is found in the small moments... a nice afternoon under a tree, a party with your friends, your favorite movie happening to be on TV on a stormy afternoon... than any meta ideas of "perfect life".

Those things are nice to journal, too. I find a lot of interesting patterns to my life when I read back through what I write down. Decisions become easier when I know my own hidden biases.

Karen

carillion · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:21:51 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171427

My basic question: When you're looking at broad, substantial choices in your life (things like where you live, how you spend your time and energy, etc.) how do you weigh the choices? Which things matter to you most? What tools do you use for things that can matter quite a lot, but aren't always easy to discern before you have to make a choice?

I've got methods that work for me, but for Reasons, am currently quite curious about what other people do in case there's something I can add to my repertoire.

The Reasons: I was told a few weeks ago that my job is being eliminated due to budget cuts. I was already looking at other options, I've been getting interviews, but nothing that's turned into an offer yet (competitive field) but I also have a long notice period due to a solid union contract.

Whatever next job is going to mean moving again (which is fine: I've done two cross-country moves in the past) and I largely approach job hunting as a fascinating game of 'what if' - what would my life be like if I lived here? or there? Or had this kind of library job as opposed to that kind?

But part of what I'm interested in are things like workplace dynamics, which is a thing you can get hints of at interviews, but study in detail. Or what it's actually like to live in a place I haven't lived before - some things I know and can guess at, others I can't.

My usual practices have involved research (for the things I can figure out before applying, like 'do I want to live there' and 'is that salary vaguely feasible for living near enough there the commute isn't horrible'?)

And then a combination of talking it through with a trusted friend, sitting with possibilities and figuring out what I need to pay particular attention to, divination, meditation, and sometimes ritual (though for various reasons, I prefer to not push a particular direction in the job hunt beyond 'let me find the job that will let me flourish'.

However, for health reasons, ritual, divination, and meditation are all a lot trickier for me right now (for reasons I can go into if it's relevant). I've been leaning more on friends (and other people I know) for help with some of that, but I'd like to see if there's other options I can fold into the sorting process that fit the combination of sometimes very limited energy/focus/attention, and that limited energy/focus needing to go both to my current job and to writing cover letters and dealing with interviews.

Because I tend to over-think things, I try to keep it simple. I use the '3 criteria' approach. The first is 'Will I enjoy or find enough interest in the job?" The second but more important "Will I like the environment?". I mean that quite literally. No more will I go to the North or the prairies even for a fabulous job. I *need* my 4 seasons and I need them to be unfolding, 3 months not 3 weeks of spring or Fall. I *need* trees or ocean, not flat barrens with little colour.
The other one is "Will my dependent/significant other find what *they* need there". And that one's the deal breaker.
I can abide 2 out of 3 but not less.
And it's mainly about being honest with oneself. I've moved to the most post-card perfect places only to find myself immersed in village mind-set, lack of privacy, intolerance and the very thing that kept it the perfect post-card village was the thing that kept it moribund - time and people passed it by. I have incredibly beautiful photographs of those places and couldn't wait to get away so I could breathe the free air.

I used to think I was a rural person, now I know I need some of that good urban availability of stimulation.

Oddly (or not) , when I'm making the big decisions, I put divination aside. I am too emotion and heart-led and also prone to superstitious thinking to go that road. Confirmation bias lurks everywhere and especially in personal divination . Having said that, I pay attention to external 'signs and portents'. For example, if the name of the place has come up a lot in the last year and had good things associated with it, I pay attention. If it turns out that someone I knew ages ago (and liked) has ended up there from totally different and sometimes strange ways, I will pay more attention. That kind of thing.

I know pretty much by now what kinds of jobs will engage me. They have to be challenging and make me use the skills I have acquired. They don't have to pay the earth unless they are stultifying and predictable. In that case - they have to pay the earth so that I can reward myself when not working. But I also set a time limit on these types of jobs. I have a terrible habit of looking for and finding all kinds of virtues a job or place may not realistically possess . This is the part when I need friends to inject a little reality into the situation for me.

So for me it's be honest with myself and try to meet at least 2 out of the 3 criteria and don't, under any circumstances, ignore the need for those 3 things hoping against hope it will work out anyway. I have to let my head rule my heart as much as that goes against the grain.

Jenett · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:49:48 pm »

Quote from: dragonfaerie;171431

I tend to journal a lot. I'm not the sort of person who has deep introspective conversations with friends very often.

Journalling has been part of my process (albeit in somewhat more public form: I use Dreamwidth for it, and sometimes I'll make a post private, but more often let people I know comment. I apparently write *really* entertaining post-interview writeups.)

At this stage in my life - I'm 39, this is my 5th round of job hunting, and my 3rd since going into libraries - I've got a pretty good idea what I want and don't want, but there's a lot of ways different pieces might go together, y'know? (And it's me and my cat, and I'm considering a fairly wide geography - I'd like to end up nearer good friends, but that's not actually as limiting as it sounds like.)

Some of that's the specific kind of work, some of that's the setting of the work (I've had interviews in academic libraries, school libraries, and public libraries), and some of it, like I said, is things like the workplace dynamics that matter to me a lot these days, but aren't something that's obvious (like the basic duties or location are.)

And that's a piece that journalling sometimes helps me sort out (see the post-interview writeups: friends often will read those, and point out thing I wasn't fully conscious of, or use it as a place to ask a question that gets me more certain how I feel about it) but it's certainly not the only possible method, which is why I asked.

For example, one of the things that happens in libraries (and other fields, but certainly mine) is that there's the scheduled work, but there's an expectation of a lot of other hours (some versions of which - say, time spent reading books so I can help people find books they like - I don't mind, some of which my body is not really up for, like regularly working late or having regular meetings that require a lot more commuting stress, which happened at my previous job.)

Some of those you can ask about or guess looking at ads, but often it involves reading nuance and how someone responds to a brief question that's tucked into a much longer interview that's mostly about other things. And that's the part where I'd love to refine tools that work for me right now more, and especially those that might fill the divination/meditation gap for me.

Jenett · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:57:07 pm »

Quote from: carillion;171433

Because I tend to over-think things, I try to keep it simple. I use the '3 criteria' approach.

These are, of course, things I was already considering. As I was trying to make clear (and maybe failed at?) in my post, I'm interested in how people make choices about things I/they can't tell from the job ad, from research about the location, or directly from the interview itself.

The ad can give me a good idea if I like the duties, if I can find a place to live that I can afford in a suitable location to the work, and so on. Research can tell me about the community and environment.

But there isn't anything as clear about 'what are these people like to work with?' and 'what is the workplace environment like' and 'is there dysfunctional administration of the types that I know I don't do well with'.

I have to make those judgements based on an interview (and in my field, that might be 90 minutes in a group setting, where I don't get to talk to individuals at all or it might be a full day academic interview with 6-8 different groups of people.)

Quote

For example, if the name of the place has come up a lot in the last year and had good things associated with it, I pay attention. If it turns out that someone I knew ages ago (and liked) has ended up there from totally different and sometimes strange ways, I will pay more attention. That kind of thing.

This is more the stuff I was interested in - thanks. I'm curious about kinds of things other people weight like that, too.

dragonfaerie · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2015, 05:03:23 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171438

This is more the stuff I was interested in - thanks. I'm curious about kinds of things other people weight like that, too.

Apart from my first job in the aerospace field, I've never job hunted when I wasn't desperate. I stay where I am now because the management is great and they apperciate me. So I've never really been in a situation where I can weigh job choices at all. I've always been doing heavy spellwork to get me out of a bad situation and into something that would meet my core needs.

Karen

Jenett · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2015, 05:57:36 pm »

Quote from: dragonfaerie;171439

Apart from my first job in the aerospace field, I've never job hunted when I wasn't desperate. I stay where I am now because the management is great and they apperciate me. So I've never really been in a situation where I can weigh job choices at all. I've always been doing heavy spellwork to get me out of a bad situation and into something that would meet my core needs.

Karen

The current situation has not been very good to me for the past six months or so, so I'm basically at "Ok, I was already looking, this means I have six months (thanks to the union contract) to look, plus some other things that help" (like having a simple answer to "Why are you job hunting." and being able to take time to go interview when I need to, and so on)

But at the same time, I'm in that weird place mid-career where there's a bunch of possible jobs, and the exchange between moderately more money (this is librarianship, *lots* of money is not on the table generally) and X set of job requirements, or somewhat less money, and other set of things, and which jobs will set me up for which other things (some of the jobs I've interviewed for would be a 'likely be in this same job for as long as want it/retirement' sort of thing, others would be 'I could do that for 5-10 years, and then look at administration level jobs')

And weighing those is interesting all on its own. (If also sometimes challenging, because I'm interested in several different possible directions.)

Weighing them against some of the chronic health issues, also interesting. I do my best to not apply for jobs I can't do, and in the right setting, the health issues aren't a big deal. But what *makes* it a right setting is not always easy to sort out without seeing the library, meeting people, etc.

(Some of those things are physical, which are pretty easy to sort out when actually interviewing, but some of them are 'style of people's work/management style/atmosphere in the building'. Plus, for libraries, the interactions with library patrons, which you don't see much of when actually interviewing, but obviously have a big impact on your day to day work life.)

In the past, I've done ritual work to help focus some of that (and have done that this round), basically a 'direct me toward postings that have these nebulous things about fit that I can't tell from a posted ad', but I've done less this round of job hunting because the aggravated health issues have made structured ritual more complicated.

Juniperberry · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2015, 07:11:28 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171441

The current situation has not been very good to me for the past six months or so, so I'm basically at "Ok, I was already looking, this means I have six months (thanks to the union contract) to look, plus some other things that help" (like having a simple answer to "Why are you job hunting." and being able to take time to go interview when I need to, and so on)

But at the same time, I'm in that weird place mid-career where there's a bunch of possible jobs, and the exchange between moderately more money (this is librarianship, *lots* of money is not on the table generally) and X set of job requirements, or somewhat less money, and other set of things, and which jobs will set me up for which other things (some of the jobs I've interviewed for would be a 'likely be in this same job for as long as want it/retirement' sort of thing, others would be 'I could do that for 5-10 years, and then look at administration level jobs')

And weighing those is interesting all on its own. (If also sometimes challenging, because I'm interested in several different possible directions.)

Weighing them against some of the chronic health issues, also interesting. I do my best to not apply for jobs I can't do, and in the right setting, the health issues aren't a big deal. But what *makes* it a right setting is not always easy to sort out without seeing the library, meeting people, etc.

(Some of those things are physical, which are pretty easy to sort out when actually interviewing, but some of them are 'style of people's work/management style/atmosphere in the building'. Plus, for libraries, the interactions with library patrons, which you don't see much of when actually interviewing, but obviously have a big impact on your day to day work life.)

In the past, I've done ritual work to help focus some of that (and have done that this round), basically a 'direct me toward postings that have these nebulous things about fit that I can't tell from a posted ad', but I've done less this round of job hunting because the aggravated health issues have made structured ritual more complicated.

If we're really undecided on something big, we flip a coin and let fate lead us. (Not sure if that's answering the question.)

Liadine (dragonflyeyes) · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2015, 07:34:20 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171441

In the past, I've done ritual work to help focus some of that (and have done that this round), basically a 'direct me toward postings that have these nebulous things about fit that I can't tell from a posted ad', but I've done less this round of job hunting because the aggravated health issues have made structured ritual more complicated.

What I do when I need some help figuring things out, but don't have the time or energy to actually do any further work, is make the magic/ritual part of my daily routine. (I actually got the idea years ago from your devotional nail polish, so thank you!) I paint my nails to dig them into and hold onto what's good for me, I put on a tiny bit of eye-makeup to give me clearer sight, and use my cinnamon toothpaste to give my voice strength. It's not much, but it has genuinely helped me in the past.

Faemon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2015, 07:58:57 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171427

My basic question: When you're looking at broad, substantial choices in your life (things like where you live, how you spend your time and energy, etc.) how do you weigh the choices?

Ruth Chang gave a TEDtalk about it and transcript is on the TEDtalk official website.

Quote

When we choose...we can do something really rather remarkable. We can put our very selves behind an option. Here's where I stand. Here's who I am.

This response in hard choices is a rational response, but it's not dictated by reasons given to us. Rather, it's supported by reasons created by us. When we create reasons for ourselves to become this kind of person rather than that, we wholeheartedly become the people that we are. You might say that we become the authors of our own lives.

There is no best alternative. Instead of looking for reasons out there, we should be looking for reasons in here: Who am I to be?

Sophia C · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2015, 02:52:10 am »

Quote from: Jenett;171427

But part of what I'm interested in are things like workplace dynamics, which is a thing you can get hints of at interviews, but study in detail. Or what it's actually like to live in a place I haven't lived before - some things I know and can guess at, others I can't.

I'm sure you'll most probably have thought of this, so apologies if I'm being obvious - but have you googled for blogs and other social media comments about the workplace? Depending on the size of the place, there may be people talking about the culture there. I recently discovered some blogging about my former university dept that made sense of some of the experiences I'd had there. You might have to dig quite deep into anonymous presentations of the place, but stuff might well be there somewhere. You might also be able to find clues on Linked In and other professional social networks. Also, can you talk to your friends and colleagues about their networks of people and get on touch with some people from the workplace, informally? It really is a tricky one, though. As a teacher I walked into a hornet's nest of a dept without knowing it, a few years ago, and I don't think there was any way I could have known. It's a problem.

Oaksworn · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2015, 03:27:32 am »

Quote from: Jenett;171437

Some of those you can ask about or guess looking at ads, but often it involves reading nuance and how someone responds to a brief question that's tucked into a much longer interview that's mostly about other things. And that's the part where I'd love to refine tools that work for me right now more, and especially those that might fill the divination/meditation gap for me.

Jenett, I have a technique that I work with that's akin to diviniation but doesn't rely on any of the external practice. Divination, as a whole, has never really clicked for me. I've dabbled with the various practices, tarot, iChing, Futhark runes, numerology, astrology, what-have-you. To be honest, none of it has ever really held my interest.

What I do is more along the lines of claircognizance, I pose a question internally and listen/look for the answer. It's very quick, a flash of yes/no right before my conscious mind tries to editorialize the question. While it seems limited to short answers, yes/no work best, it does help to narrow the field down and give me the chance to focus in a particular direction to seek more clarification. It works well as a sounding board to check my feelings/reactions against in a particular situation, too.

Beyond that, how about the idea of reading body language, facial expressions, microexpressions and such? A friend of mine got really into that after watching the tv series Lie to Me. I'm sure you already to do some extant when interviewing but I thought it worth while mentioning as another tool that can inform your decision.

Jenett · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2015, 12:08:32 pm »

Quote from: Naomi J;171474

I'm sure you'll most probably have thought of this, so apologies if I'm being obvious - but have you googled for blogs and other social media comments about the workplace?

I do, but they're often not helpful - for example, a public library might have, say, 10 reviews, but they're mostly about "Oh, the children's room is gorgeous." You might get a couple of comments about the staff, but they're mostly not very helpful in sorting out what someone would be like to work with day in and day out.

(Or there's another one, a school, where there's some consistent comments from former employees but they wouldn't apply as much to my position. This is what one gets for the sort of liminal space that librarianship often occupies.)

Jenett · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2015, 12:17:52 pm »

Quote from: Oaksworn;171475

While it seems limited to short answers, yes/no work best, it does help to narrow the field down and give me the chance to focus in a particular direction to seek more clarification. It works well as a sounding board to check my feelings/reactions against in a particular situation, too.

Huh. That's interesting.

One of the things I do requires a long drive (though at the moment, anywhere I'm likely to interview involves one, so that's okay) which is that I talk to myself while driving, and then I casually out-of-the-side-of-my-eye (as it were) pay attention to what words or phrases I keep using in talking about it.

(Sometimes this is before the interview, and I'm rehearsing possible answers for likely questions. Sometimes it's after, and I'm playing with 'what would it be like if I had that job' scenarios.)

For example, if I keep finding myself saying things like "I feel like" or "I want", I pay attention to what comes out next. Or what particular topics I circle back to again and again.

There's a trick to doing this for me, which is not to put any weight into the exploration (because that can change things and outcomes, and I don't want that if I'm just exploring ideas)

Sefiru · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2015, 09:34:47 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;171512

...

I've learned that my decision-making process is ... highly non-linear, let's put it that way. My thought process is less a list of pros and cons, but more like a big Venn diagram where the circles move and change size as I gather more information. I'll start off with a vague idea (eg, "it would be cool to have a fish tank") and have a long period of looking at options and information until the various factors converge on a particular decision ("I want this tank", "I want this kind of fish").

This process is also how I arrived at not owning a car. Some factors involved were: Initial cost, ongoing cost, quality, access to public transit, access to parking, temporary access to cars. These all intersect; for one thing, I could afford a used car, but not one of a quality I would accept. For another, I work downtown where I can get to by bus, but parking is scarce; however, if I worked outside of town, I would need a car to commute.

Not sure how relevant this would be to job-hunting. I got my current job through a temp agency, so I can't really comment on that.

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Author Topic: Weighing choices (Read 2634 times)

Jenett

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