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Author Topic: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum  (Read 16816 times)

Melamphoros

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2015, 07:30:21 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;169918
In our previous SMF incarnation, Divination was a SIG. That changed when we moved to VB; I'm not sure why. I'd have no problem at all with it becoming one again; there are a lot of ways that makes sense.

 
*blows dust off his exceptionally bad memory*

IIRC, it was originally a regular board on SMF back when we had two different membership levels.  Enough people wanted a divination forum available for the beginner section, so it was turned into a SIG so that those without full membership can use it.  It remained a SIG when we did away with the basic/full membership distinctions but reverted back to its original non-SIG status when we jumped to VB.

A few of the social discussion boards (including Food and Cooking which I was the SIG Leader for) made similar journeys.


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Jabberwocky

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2015, 08:43:01 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;169922
IME, 'but not those awful Satanists!' (usually founded in the assumption that the Christian right's conception of what Satanists are and do - most specifically, that they 'worship the Christian devil' - is accurate:rolleye::) is endemic in Pagandom.

Sunflower

 
I've spun the Satanism discussion off to here so as to try and not drift quite so far away from the thread purpose.
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random417

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2015, 04:40:50 pm »
Quote from: Jack;169911
Would you say that requires a separate section for high magic, or not having discussion or debate from people who do not believe that magic is only for self-improvement? Would having sections open for debate drive high magicians away?
It's not so much that, but... it's like with the SIGs here, participating in a discussion within a SIG it's assumed that you'll adopt the paradigm that the OP is setting forth, at least for the purpose of the discussion
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2015, 04:42:52 pm »
Quote from: random417;169979
It's not so much that, but... it's like with the SIGs here, participating in a discussion within a SIG it's assumed that you'll adopt the paradigm that the OP is setting forth, at least for the purpose of the discussion
I don't think that's necessarily true? I've certainly seen discussion with differently-heathen points of view in the A&H SIG. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
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RandallS

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2015, 07:01:54 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;169773
There apparently is a way to loosely integrate Mediawiki (the wiki software that powers Wikipedia) into the forum. I have no idea how well it works, but I'll look into it.

I tried it today and at least the DB-link for login to MW from SMF works. I haven't figured out how to limit MW powers by SMF usergroup yet, but it is supposed to be possible.
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veggiewolf

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2015, 08:26:14 am »
Quote from: random417;169979
It's not so much that, but... it's like with the SIGs here, participating in a discussion within a SIG it's assumed that you'll adopt the paradigm that the OP is setting forth, at least for the purpose of the discussion

 
Adopt the paradigm of the SIG itself, maybe, but not the OP.  Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying?
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Darkhawk

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2015, 01:01:12 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;170077
Adopt the paradigm of the SIG itself, maybe, but not the OP.  Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying?

"Adopt the paradigm" seems rather more encompassing than the actual requirements of following the rules, though?

I just went through a bunch of the various SIGs and most of the special rules boil down to "this is an area with a defined topic so please stay on it", with reminders of general board rules like "this is a discussion and debate board" or explicit notes that something is a support area rather than a debate area.

I didn't have to adopt a heathen paradigm in order to post an author reference in case someone wanted to pursue something Juniperberry mentioned the other day; I didn't have to do anything other than know a good source and say something about it.

The reason, though, that we don't have SIGs for every topic under the sun is - aside from the fact that it would break down the coherence of the board - whenever we propose a new one, we discuss in staff whether there is enough interest or potential interest to sustain the topic, and whether the subject needs to be protected at some level by stricter standards of stay-on-topic, and whether the subject needs special rules that suspend or modify standard board practice (such as affirming that the Chronic Illness SIG is primarily for support rather than debate).

Defining the topic of a potential SIG broadly enough that it has a plausible conversation level and narrowly enough that it should be formulated as a SIG at all is sometimes a complicated process.  Additionally, a SIG needs someone to keep an eye on it, and that person must be someone who is not only familiar with the SIG topic but an acceptable junior-at-least staffer, willing to take on the work, and active enough to perform staff duties reliably.  The special rules need to be formulated, though in many cases this is as straightforward as defining the topic and asking people to stick to it.  Proposed SIGs can - and have - failed to come into a being because of misses on all of these.

Added: the SIGs are an outgrowth of an older practice of single-thread special topic discussions, which were moderated much more strictly for thread drift than other threads.  As a historical note that may be relevant to understanding.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:03:08 pm by Darkhawk »
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veggiewolf

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2015, 01:26:46 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;170088
"Adopt the paradigm" seems rather more encompassing than the actual requirements of following the rules, though?


You're absolutely right, and I misspoke.  :)
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random417

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2015, 07:58:25 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;170077
Adopt the paradigm of the SIG itself, maybe, but not the OP.  Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying?
Not so much adopt the paradigm I guess as acknowledge the viewpoint, I think is closer.  For example, although not my original thought, almost all (although exceptions to every rule exist of course) ceremonial magick in traditional contexts is either ultimately monotheistic, or a soft polytheism. A hard polytheist probably shouldn't enter into a discussion on blending godforms just to argue that you can't do that because they're separate. It's kind of not fair to those of us that do. Similarly, I don't want to have the same argument over yet again about why the want belongs in fire and not air, or why I start a circle in the east and not the north. I can provide other examples, but really, any example I come up with, not everyone does.

The point being that CM has a fundamentally different viewpoint than much of the wider Pagan world. As a ceremonialist myself, I'm alright not having a SIG with the way things are here currently. I doubt there's enough interest, and I certainly don't have time to run it. If the CM sub goes away though, I'd find myself explaining the basics of a CM viewpoint over and over again... and here that also means digging up sources. I don't have time to teach CM 101 repeatedly just to discuss things.

Hopefully that clears things up, instead of just making it more complicated. I recently switched from 1st to 3rd at work, and I'm a bit fuzzy mentally
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

RandallS

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Re: New Forum: Simplify the Organization
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2015, 02:03:59 pm »
Quote from: random417;170126
Similarly, I don't want to have the same argument over yet again about why the want belongs in fire and not air, or why I start a circle in the east and not the north.

Things like that are specific to one system of CM (admittedly the best known one in the US/Europe today), but they are not specific to CM in general.

Quote
The point being that CM has a fundamentally different viewpoint than much of the wider Pagan world. As a ceremonialist myself, I'm alright not having a SIG with the way things are here currently. I doubt there's enough interest, and I certainly don't have time to run it. If the CM sub goes away though, I'd find myself explaining the basics of a CM viewpoint over and over again... and here that also means digging up sources. I don't have time to teach CM 101 repeatedly just to discuss things.

Not wanting to explain the basics over and over again is both reasonable and understandable. However, one can avoid that by finding or writing a FAQ-type article and pointing people to the right section of it rather than recreating an explanation from scratch every time it comes up. :ange:
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dragonfaerie

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2015, 08:30:51 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;169579
This thread is for any ideas/suggestions/etc. members may have with respect to the new forum -- for example, organization changes or the like.


Two things...

1. I think it might be best to roll beginner areas into their associated non-beginner areas, maybe with a topic tag for beginners. From where I sit, the beginner areas have just become a... for lack of a better term, stagnant pond where the beginners hang out. And talk about the same topics over and over. It would be nice to get them integrated into the larger board.

2. Maybe we can solve the newsletter/wiki question by having a section where we can link to TC member blogs/blog articles? I'm not likely to write special content for a board newsletter no matter how much I say I will, but if I write something for my blog that could be good for TC, I don't mind it linked here. It's a thought.

FWIW, newsletters everywhere are having a hard time where Facebook has made significant inroads. I've seen many an email list die and newsletter dry up when people start living on Facebook.

Karen

RandallS

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2015, 09:28:52 pm »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;170462
1. I think it might be best to roll beginner areas into their associated non-beginner areas, maybe with a topic tag for beginners. From where I sit, the beginner areas have just become a... for lack of a better term, stagnant pond where the beginners hang out. And talk about the same topics over and over. It would be nice to get them integrated into the larger board.

This is an interesting idea. What do others think of it. A "Beginner" tag would likely even be more noticeable than a Beginner Forum for people cruising through the board via the "new posts" list.

Quote
2. Maybe we can solve the newsletter/wiki question by having a section where we can link to TC member blogs/blog articles? I'm not likely to write special content for a board newsletter no matter how much I say I will, but if I write something for my blog that could be good for TC, I don't mind it linked here. It's a thought.
I'm not sure how you mean this to work. Could you go into a bit more detail?

Quote
FWIW, newsletters everywhere are having a hard time where Facebook has made significant inroads. I've seen many an email list die and newsletter dry up when people start living on Facebook.
No comment (as I don't live on FB).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 09:29:11 pm by RandallS »
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dragonfaerie

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2015, 09:55:30 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;170470
I'm not sure how you mean this to work. Could you go into a bit more detail?


Eh... I hadn't thought it all out yet. Maybe a form we could fill out where we could send in links to our blog posts, that would populate a page that's a list of said blog articles? With topic tags? We could also have a page of blog listings, but I think it would be more helpful to have links to actual posts rather than just general blogs.

Quote
No comment (as I don't live on FB).


Nor do I, but we're having some issues in my Star Trek club with it. Not my local group, but the regional area... people don't bother to check email or read the list because they're all wrapped up in Facebook (and in the Facebook group we didn't really need, IMO).

But I digress.

Karen

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2015, 10:06:04 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;170470
This is an interesting idea. What do others think of it. A "Beginner" tag would likely even be more noticeable than a Beginner Forum for people cruising through the board via the "new posts" list.

 
I think that's really, really clever and I approve of it.
as the water grinds the stone
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Jack

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Re: Ideas/Planning for the New Forum
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2015, 10:32:18 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;170478
I think that's really, really clever and I approve of it.

 
Yes this, seconded!
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