Author Topic: Why are Hoodoo, Folk Magick, and Chaos Magick referred to as "low"? (Read 6521 times)

PrincessKLS · « **on:** December 15, 2014, 04:26:56 pm »

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high? Are there in-between paths? Where is Wicca boxed in this case?

Tom · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2014, 06:16:37 pm »

Quote from: PrincessKLS;167447

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high? Are there in-between paths? Where is Wicca boxed in this case?

...Chaos magic is considered low magic? Isn't it actually the bastard love child of 'high' ceremonial magic and philsophy? That is neither high nor low and is instead whatever what it wants to be?

Micheál · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2014, 06:20:55 pm »

Quote from: PrincessKLS;167447

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high? Are there in-between paths? Where is Wicca boxed in this case?

I wouldn't class Chaos magick as "low," but for the rest, it's usually because they're not as elaborate. "High" magick is mostly ceremonial, utilising elaborate tools, props, big grimoires, lengthy rituals&formulas, e.t.c Folk magic is almost tge opposite. They both have similarities, and are just as effective, but just two different means.

Wicca us a combination of both, utilusing both folk witchcraft, and also has its ceremonial elements.

PrincessKLS · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2014, 06:54:01 pm »

Quote from: Micheál;167454

I wouldn't class Chaos magick as "low," but for the rest, it's usually because they're not as elaborate. "High" magick is mostly ceremonial, utilising elaborate tools, props, big grimoires, lengthy rituals&formulas, e.t.c Folk magic is almost tge opposite. They both have similarities, and are just as effective, but just two different means.

Wicca us a combination of both, utilusing both folk witchcraft, and also has its ceremonial elements.

Oh so it's a ceremonial thing not a description of mood or vibe?

Emma Eldritch · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2014, 12:15:30 am »

Quote from: Tom;167453

...Chaos magic is considered low magic? Isn't it actually the bastard love child of 'high' ceremonial magic and philsophy? That is neither high nor low and is instead whatever what it wants to be?

I've actually seen it described as such before, but usually in reference to the practical end - usually sigil magic and the like. It's kinda weird, right?

Darkhawk · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2014, 01:05:05 am »

Quote from: PrincessKLS;167447

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high?

"High magic" is so-named by the sort of privileged ivory-tower sorts who can expend all their free time and magical work on stuff like making contact with their holy guardian angel and learning dead languages.

They call other sorts of magic "low" because they are the magic of people who need to get shit done, you know, those plebian sorts who work for a bloody living.

Faemon · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2014, 02:07:47 am »

Quote from: PrincessKLS;167447

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high? Are there in-between paths? Where is Wicca boxed in this case?

What I picked up, although I can't remember where from, is that the high magic(k)s dealt with deities and cosmic forces whereas low magic(k)s were more about personal power.

Also I think that Catherine MacCoun was pretty comprehensive, in her book On Becoming an Alchemist that described the sort of Hermeticist Alchemical cosmology of there being a concept of the world or movement in it through magic as "vertical" (high) versus "horizontal" (low, although it should probably be righthand lefthand stuff because low is also a vertical designation technically) and, most importantly, why that distinction would be useful to make in the first place. (Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about it.)

PrincessKLS · « **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2014, 02:10:15 am »

Quote from: Darkhawk;167475

"High magic" is so-named by the sort of privileged ivory-tower sorts who can expend all their free time and magical work on stuff like making contact with their holy guardian angel and learning dead languages.

They call other sorts of magic "low" because they are the magic of people who need to get shit done, you know, those plebian sorts who work for a bloody living.

Oh I see.

Elding · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2015, 08:54:53 am »

Quote from: Faemon;167476

What I picked up, although I can't remember where from, is that the high magic(k)s dealt with deities and cosmic forces whereas low magic(k)s were more about personal power.

If so, the person who named it 'low magic' deserves a medal for silliness. There is nothing 'low' in having personal power or working on self accomplishments. Sometimes a low can be found in the motives, but certainly not in the craft in and of itself.. besides, it implies that there is a definitive line between the deities and every day life, and while that is the case for some, it does not apply to all.

I bet that sometime during the revival of neo paganism, someone somewhere figured that 'high' magic was 'real' magic because to them it was new, unexplored and exciting. 'Low' magic never really disappeared from folklore and living superstition, so it's entirely possible that it was simply overlooked because half of it, to a non-practitioner, would look like little more than silly wives tales that crazy old people were up to. So 'low' magic might be considered as a somewhat condescending name if i'm right. I kind of wish it could have a name change to 'daily magic' or something similar, but oh well.

Gigi Kiersten · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2015, 03:57:03 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;167475

"High magic" is so-named by the sort of privileged ivory-tower sorts who can expend all their free time and magical work on stuff like making contact with their holy guardian angel and learning dead languages.

They call other sorts of magic "low" because they are the magic of people who need to get shit done, you know, those plebian sorts who work for a bloody living.

This! Seriously, I don't see one form of magic as better than any other form of magic. Maybe it's the univeralist in me, but I see it is using different methods to get the same result. *shrugs* I personally, I fought a long time against using folk magic because I had some people in my family who abused that type of magic for dark purposes.

Took me a long time to realize that it wasn't the path itself, but the people who were using that was bad. I use folk magic, because it's mostly simple and to the point, which I happen to like a lot.

RandallS · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2015, 06:34:23 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;167475

"High magic" is so-named by the sort of privileged ivory-tower sorts who can expend all their free time and magical work on stuff like making contact with their holy guardian angel and learning dead languages.

They call other sorts of magic "low" because they are the magic of people who need to get shit done, you know, those plebian sorts who work for a bloody living.

Ding ding ding ding We have a winner.

While high magic is usually more elaborate than low magic as another poster noted, it really all boils down to what Darkhawk said.

MeadowRae · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2015, 10:10:35 pm »

Quote from: Gigi Kiersten;182671

I personally, I fought a long time against using folk magic because I had some people in my family who abused that type of magic for dark purposes.

Took me a long time to realize that it wasn't the path itself, but the people who were using that was bad. I use folk magic, because it's mostly simple and to the point, which I happen to like a lot.

I have come to this realization myself very recently. I don't have family members involved, but I always had the experience of all witchcraft is for evil purposes. People can abuse just about any religion/practice if they put their mind to it, unfortunately.

Gigi Kiersten · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2015, 09:31:21 am »

Quote from: ViolaRae;182687

I have come to this realization myself very recently. I don't have family members involved, but I always had the experience of all witchcraft is for evil purposes. People can abuse just about any religion/practice if they put their mind to it, unfortunately.

Yeah, I can understand that. Especially when you hear all about that anti-witchcraft propaganda in the church. I'm just very glad that you strong enough to overcome that thinking. I've seen plenty of people use and abuse high magick over the years so yeah it's not necessary the path, or religion it's just the people who are bad.

Lionrhod · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2015, 09:10:02 am »

Quote from: Darkhawk;167475

"High magic" is so-named by the sort of privileged ivory-tower sorts who can expend all their free time and magical work on stuff like making contact with their holy guardian angel and learning dead languages.

They call other sorts of magic "low" because they are the magic of people who need to get shit done, you know, those plebian sorts who work for a bloody living.

LOL Yup!

In my understanding, "High Magick" refers to anything specifically related to elevating the soul to connect with Source/God/dess/One's "Higher" Self, whereas "low" magick is anything that relates to the practical. And yeah, I too think we should get rid of such distinctions as it reeks of snobbery.

I can't recall who said it, but I remember someone saying, "Low magick is anything that WORKS!"

Wimsaur · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:04:00 pm »

Quote from: PrincessKLS;167447

Simple question but also what makes certain magickal paths high? Are there in-between paths? Where is Wicca boxed in this case?

Low and high simply refer to effect and causal Magick; where causal Magick is the perfecting of one's soul and effect Magick makes changes in the mental and physical worlds.

Sigil Magick provides a very easy and very quick method to cause change on the lower worlds (mind and matter).
It can also be tailored, crafted, and perfected to cause change on the higher worlds of the soul (will and creativity).

-Wimsaur

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Author Topic: Why are Hoodoo, Folk Magick, and Chaos Magick referred to as "low"? (Read 6521 times)

PrincessKLS

Why are Hoodoo, Folk Magick, and Chaos Magick referred to as "low"?

Tom

Re: Why are Hoodoo, Folk Magick, and Chaos Magick referred to as "low"?

Micheál

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PrincessKLS

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Emma Eldritch

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Darkhawk

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Faemon

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PrincessKLS

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Elding

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Gigi Kiersten

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RandallS

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MeadowRae

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Gigi Kiersten

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Lionrhod

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Wimsaur

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