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Author Topic: Thoughts on KO?  (Read 6407 times)

Fiessa

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Thoughts on KO?
« on: December 04, 2014, 10:33:10 pm »
I'm just starting with Kemeticism, and since I've never been able to really stick with a religion or spirituality before (though I've looked into many) I'm still a bit cautious but hopeful. I've noticed that the main groups of practitioners seem to be Kemetic Orthodox and solitary, and I was wondering if people could tell me the pros and cons of each for someone interested in practicing as a layperson? Thanks!

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 01:22:40 am »
Quote from: Fiessa;166761
I've noticed that the main groups of practitioners seem to be Kemetic Orthodox and solitary, and I was wondering if people could tell me the pros and cons of each for someone interested in practicing as a layperson? Thanks!

 
I do miss the days when there were multiple well-known options for temples to evaluate; however, back then I'm not sure there was as strong a thriving independent community, so, you know, six of one.

The simplest breakdown is that if you work with KO (or any other organisations, and there are a few others out there; I know we've a few people from Reidy's Temple of Ra who are intermittently here, and there's Wisner, though Akhet Hwt-Hrw's website appears dead now) you get a particular package deal; if you do independent stuff, you don't.

For the case of KO's package in specific, you get:
* an introductory program putting forth the basics of their construction (which I cannot comment on in its current form, as my direct experience is something like a decade old)
* an assembled set of rituals and practices
* a very specific theological interpretation and structure (including a Nisut, certain possessory practices, a particular way of defining and organising the pantheon, and certain belief sets)
* an active community of co-religionists

KO was one of the first recon-oriented Kemetic organisations, which means its influence is very wide within the community, at a number of levels including jargon.  There are people who run the spectrum from an independent or other-temple practice coexisting with an affiliation with Kemetic Orthodoxy all the way to attempting to build a practice with minimal KO influence and an active hostility to the denomination.

Things one gets from other affiliations:
* Organisations such as Reidy's have a much stricter reconstructionist bent, as do some independents.  
* Some independents are significantly focused on the veneration of specific gods or specific small clusters of gods, and thus are building something focused around those powers and the historical and modern veneration thereof.
* Where KO is oriented towards a partial recapitulation of state religion, some independents are more interested in local, community, or household-oriented structures.
* Some independents, while still syncretising with modern religions at some level in order to patch gaps in what can be obtained through research, prefer to nick concepts from religions other than Vodou (KO's choice); a popular choice here, at least from my observation, is Shinto.
* Some independents are working particular specific mystical paths.
* The loose independent community produces interesting scholarship and interpretations which cannot be reconciled with something that has a stable, set theological structure.  (This can be a bit like the girl with the curl, mind.)

Um.  Off the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.

(A note for context:  I have no personal experience with post-Great Reorganisation Kemetic Orthodoxy, and minimal experience with the organisation as of a decade ago.  I did their beginners' class, did not feel that my own religious needs would be supported there, and started cultivating my own independent work.  They were the second temple I did an introductory class through; the first, which despite being a better fit also did not support my religious needs, appears to have vanished not long after I went rogue.)
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katbast

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 09:27:28 am »
Quote from: Fiessa;166761
I'm just starting with Kemeticism, and since I've never been able to really stick with a religion or spirituality before (though I've looked into many) I'm still a bit cautious but hopeful. I've noticed that the main groups of practitioners seem to be Kemetic Orthodox and solitary, and I was wondering if people could tell me the pros and cons of each for someone interested in practicing as a layperson? Thanks!

 
Darkhawk give you a really good overview. I am a member of KO, fid you have any particular questions? I enjoy being a part of it or I wouldn't still be there.

Fiessa

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 12:40:01 pm »
Quote from: katbast;166782
Darkhawk give you a really good overview. I am a member of KO, fid you have any particular questions? I enjoy being a part of it or I wouldn't still be there.

 
I don't know how to have two quotes in the same post, but yes, Darkhawk - thank you for the reply.

Mostly what I'm considering at the moment is the fact that because KO is a specific group, it'll have stricter guidelines and regulations. I'm a college student, so I don't know if it'll be possible or practical for me to fulfill the needs of KO if they're too strict. On the other hand, I like the idea of belonging to a community like that because it feels ordered and structured, and I like that. So I'm mostly trying to weigh those, as well as anything else that people think is important to consider.

Also, I'm considering honoring Ma'at as a goddess, and I don't know if that's acceptable in KO or not? I know she doesn't come up in the Rite of Parent Divination, so I wasn't sure if it was okay to honor her individually.

I'm also a bit concerned about whether the bits from Vodou KO uses count as cultural appropriation or not, because I spend too much time on Tumblr.

katbast

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 01:47:02 pm »
Quote from: Fiessa;166805
I don't know how to have two quotes in the same post, but yes, Darkhawk - thank you for the reply.

Mostly what I'm considering at the moment is the fact that because KO is a specific group, it'll have stricter guidelines and regulations. I'm a college student, so I don't know if it'll be possible or practical for me to fulfill the needs of KO if they're too strict. On the other hand, I like the idea of belonging to a community like that because it feels ordered and structured, and I like that. So I'm mostly trying to weigh those, as well as anything else that people think is important to consider.

Also, I'm considering honoring Ma'at as a goddess, and I don't know if that's acceptable in KO or not? I know she doesn't come up in the Rite of Parent Divination, so I wasn't sure if it was okay to honor her individually.

I'm also a bit concerned about whether the bits from Vodou KO uses count as cultural appropriation or not, because I spend too much time on Tumblr.

 
The guidelines and regulations partly depend on how far you go. In the beginner class (if I remember correctly), you are asked to do a little reading and go to a chat once a week. If you can't make the chats you can just read the logs. If you undergo RPD and you agree with the results and want to become a Shemsu, you agree to put your RPD line up first. You will not be asked to leave any faith or Gods but just the order you honor them (hope that last bit makes sense). You are free to honor Ma'at as a goddess regardless of the RPD. You are given a "daily" ritual to use, its a nice common ground with the rest of the community but some only do it once a week, month, etc. It's more of what do you feel you need to be doing.

As far as the Voodoo bit, our leader is a Mambo and I believe that the divination in the RPD has been influenced by that but I do not believe that there is other influences from that. However I know jack about Voodoo and could be incorrect.

Hope this helps some.

Fiessa

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2014, 02:57:23 pm »
Quote from: katbast;166809
The guidelines and regulations partly depend on how far you go. In the beginner class (if I remember correctly), you are asked to do a little reading and go to a chat once a week. If you can't make the chats you can just read the logs. If you undergo RPD and you agree with the results and want to become a Shemsu, you agree to put your RPD line up first. You will not be asked to leave any faith or Gods but just the order you honor them (hope that last bit makes sense). You are free to honor Ma'at as a goddess regardless of the RPD. You are given a "daily" ritual to use, its a nice common ground with the rest of the community but some only do it once a week, month, etc. It's more of what do you feel you need to be doing.

As far as the Voodoo bit, our leader is a Mambo and I believe that the divination in the RPD has been influenced by that but I do not believe that there is other influences from that. However I know jack about Voodoo and could be incorrect.

Hope this helps some.

 
Thank you. I think I might do the class and see if I want to proceed from there. I'll have to modify the rituals to accommodate college stuff, like "no fire", of course.

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 03:45:45 am »
Quote from: Fiessa;166811
Thank you. I think I might do the class and see if I want to proceed from there. I'll have to modify the rituals to accommodate college stuff, like "no fire", of course.

 Shemsu with KO here. Basically the other answers were great.

The "strict" level is really only held to priests, concerning state rites. The rest of us (Shemsu, Remetj and Beginners) are only asked not to do Senut if we're menstruating. Even if we are menstruating, we are free to make offerings and talk/pray to our gods at our shrines (I confirmed this with Hemet in a chat because I was worried about still using my Senut shrine since I space for a separate shrine entirely).

I also believe there was a thread of resources for those members who live in restrictive fire-code areas like you and other college-members. Instead of incense, you can use an oil burner or spritz perfume. Instead of candles, you can use a battery-candle or a candle app. If you aren't able to make natron yourself, plenty of the temple members will be happy to supply some to you or you can buy some from Hemet's site.
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Fiessa

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 09:04:10 am »
Quote from: Mivi;167428
I also believe there was a thread of resources for those members who live in restrictive fire-code areas like you and other college-members. Instead of incense, you can use an oil burner or spritz perfume. Instead of candles, you can use a battery-candle or a candle app. If you aren't able to make natron yourself, plenty of the temple members will be happy to supply some to you or you can buy some from Hemet's site.

 
Don't oil-burners use fire?

Thanks for your response.

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 10:11:43 am »
Quote from: Fiessa;166761
I'm just starting with Kemeticism, and since I've never been able to really stick with a religion or spirituality before (though I've looked into many) I'm still a bit cautious but hopeful. I've noticed that the main groups of practitioners seem to be Kemetic Orthodox and solitary, and I was wondering if people could tell me the pros and cons of each for someone interested in practicing as a layperson? Thanks!

 
I'm taking the beginner's course right now. While it probably isn't a path I personally want to commit to long-term, I would recommend the course. It's simple but interesting and well organized, so it gives a person a good understanding of the religion. Certain things about the path turn me off, but that's more about personal preference than anything being wrong with KO itself. I just find it too strict and formal for something I'm doing on my own, and while I'm sure the Nisut is a lovely person, I don't really believe in the concept of a modern day pharaoh.

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 10:39:05 am »
Quote from: Fiessa;167437
Don't oil-burners use fire?

 
There are oil diffusers that use an incandescent bulb for the heating element.
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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 03:25:57 pm »
Quote from: Nyktelios;167439
I'm taking the beginner's course right now. While it probably isn't a path I personally want to commit to long-term, I would recommend the course. It's simple but interesting and well organized, so it gives a person a good understanding of the religion. Certain things about the path turn me off, but that's more about personal preference than anything being wrong with KO itself. I just find it too strict and formal for something I'm doing on my own, and while I'm sure the Nisut is a lovely person, I don't really believe in the concept of a modern day pharaoh.

 
Yeah, those are some of the same things that I'm thinking may turn me off of it. Good to know that the course is good regardless though.

Quote
There are oil diffusers that use an incandescent bulb for the heating element.


I found one of those today, actually! I figured there had to be something like that out there, but I hadn't seen any before. I guess I just wasn't looking.

katbast

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 05:49:04 pm »
Quote from: Nyktelios;167439
I'm taking the beginner's course right now. While it probably isn't a path I personally want to commit to long-term, I would recommend the course. It's simple but interesting and well organized, so it gives a person a good understanding of the religion. Certain things about the path turn me off, but that's more about personal preference than anything being wrong with KO itself. I just find it too strict and formal for something I'm doing on my own, and while I'm sure the Nisut is a lovely person, I don't really believe in the concept of a modern day pharaoh.

 

I like to explain the "modern day pharaoh" by substituting "religious leader". That's essentially what the Nisut is.

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 07:25:36 pm »
Quote from: katbast;167452
I like to explain the "modern day pharaoh" by substituting "religious leader". That's essentially what the Nisut is.

 
True, but this office was tied to the kingship of the country in ancient Egypt, and since ancient polytheistic traditions weren't monolithic and universally organized, there's no need for a pope, in my opinion.

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 01:29:54 pm »
Quote from: katbast;167452
I like to explain the "modern day pharaoh" by substituting "religious leader". That's essentially what the Nisut is.

 
She is, and she isn't.

As I understand it from hearing several interviews with her, the Nisut went through multiple rituals to become a holder of kingly ka.  This conveys more responsibility upon her than just that of religious leader, by definition.

I'm a solitary Kemetic, and not a member of KO, so please correct me if I am wrong.
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katbast

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Re: Thoughts on KO?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 03:42:42 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;167494
She is, and she isn't.

As I understand it from hearing several interviews with her, the Nisut went through multiple rituals to become a holder of kingly ka.  This conveys more responsibility upon her than just that of religious leader, by definition.

I'm a solitary Kemetic, and not a member of KO, so please correct me if I am wrong.

 

You're not wrong. Calling her a religious leader is a bit of a simplification but I feel it is a reasonable description. Personally I see her position along the lines of a Pope. A religious leader but also more than just a religious leader.

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