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Author Topic: What am I?  (Read 3412 times)

Mysty

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What am I?
« on: November 12, 2014, 07:45:37 pm »
Hello everyone,

I am having a 'spiritual identity crisis' I suppose you can call it and could really use some experienced guidance. I’m not new to the ‘Pagan’ path, but lately I’ve been left feeling as though I am.

Over twenty years ago I was introduced to Wicca. I was thrilled after having been raised in a Roman Catholic household. The spellcrafting side of Wicca spoke to the little girl inside me that watched Bewitched on TV, wrote spells, and questioned everything I was taught about Catholicism. I loved the notion that I could work magic. I created my own Book of Shadows, bought all the tools and herbs and oils and the whole nine yards. The spell casting side of Wicca ‘spoke’ to me loud and clear. My problems began the more I read about the religious side of Wicca.

To sum my beliefs up shortly:

1) I believe there are higher ‘powers’, though I do not classify those higher powers as either male or female nor by any names
2) I am not monotheistic as I believe if one exists then there are more
3) I spent years and years researching Gods and Goddesses of all different cultures. I have a deep love for nature, open water (oceans/lakes/etc), and I am most at peace at night. I feel drawn to the ‘idea’ of Gods/Goddesses said to have power over these elements (such as Gaia being the Goddess of Earth, Nyx the Goddess of Night, Poseidon the God of Sea, etc.), but not enough that I believe wholeheartedly in the deity and feel comfortable ‘praying’ to that deity.
 
Compounding my dilemma are things that I have been told. I’ve been told that I’m not Wiccan because I don’t follow a certain God and Goddess. I’ve been told that I’m not Pagan because I can’t be agnostic and Pagan at the same time. I’ve been told that my spells ‘won’t work right’ or ‘will be missing something’ without being attached to a God/Goddess.

All of this has left me feeling confused and unsure of my path. Please, any advice or direction would be appreciated. Blessed Be )O(

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 08:49:36 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165116
Hello everyone,

All of this has left me feeling confused and unsure of my path. Please, any advice or direction would be appreciated. Blessed Be )O(

 
First off, never let anyone tell you what you are and are not. YOU tell THEM what you are and are not. They are not, and will never be, the arbiters of your faith. You are.

Secondly, non-theistic witch sounds about right if you want a catchy term for yourself. You don't need it, but I understand why a label might help.
"This is a sorrow-spider. Which end do you hold it by? TRICK QUESTION!"

Mysty

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 09:12:38 pm »
Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;165118
First off, never let anyone tell you what you are and are not. YOU tell THEM what you are and are not. They are not, and will never be, the arbiters of your faith. You are.

Secondly, non-theistic witch sounds about right if you want a catchy term for yourself. You don't need it, but I understand why a label might help.

 
Thank you!! Finally, someone that understands :)

The label is in large part so that I have some direction to continue on my path. It's hard to find material to study when you're unsure of which direction to turn. Admittedly, I stopped studying anything for years due in part to my uncertainty which label to place myself under from a spiritual standpoint, but I've recently renewed my practice of magic and study of nature and natural magic only to be told that I couldn't even consider myself as Pagan unless I dedicated myself to a God and Goddess.

HarpingHawke

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 09:38:36 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165122
Thank you!! Finally, someone that understands :)

The label is in large part so that I have some direction to continue on my path. It's hard to find material to study when you're unsure of which direction to turn. Admittedly, I stopped studying anything for years due in part to my uncertainty which label to place myself under from a spiritual standpoint, but I've recently renewed my practice of magic and study of nature and natural magic only to be told that I couldn't even consider myself as Pagan unless I dedicated myself to a God and Goddess.

 
As a Devotional Polytheist, I'm telling you that you DO NOT have to worship a god and/or goddess to be Pagan of any kind.

Cuthwin already said something along these lines, but try not to let anyone tell you what you are and aren't. If I had done that, I would still be Catholic! :) No, but seriously? Those people don't know what they're talking about.

Non-theistic witch sounds good, but you can still be Wiccan without worshipping the God and Goddess, if that's a tradition that draws you. Or at least Neowiccan. I have to admit, I was only Wiccan for a short while before I realized it wasn't the right path for me.

You keep doing your own thing. Everything'll work out. :)
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

Tay Redgrave

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 10:28:46 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165116
I’ve been told that I’m not Pagan because I can’t be agnostic and Pagan at the same time.
That's BS. A couple of years ago, I was considering calling myself an Agnostic Pagan and a little google search can prove that it's possible to be agnostic and Pagan. :| Whomever told you that is grossly misinformed.

That being said, it's entirely possible to be Pagan without worshiping gods and there are non-theistic Pagans out there, so don't let anyone discourage you from that path if that's what you wish to take. You might have to do a little digging, but they're out there.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 10:29:33 pm by Tay Redgrave »

Mysty

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 10:30:30 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;165123
As a Devotional Polytheist, I'm telling you that you DO NOT have to worship a god and/or goddess to be Pagan of any kind.

Cuthwin already said something along these lines, but try not to let anyone tell you what you are and aren't. If I had done that, I would still be Catholic! :) No, but seriously? Those people don't know what they're talking about.

Non-theistic witch sounds good, but you can still be Wiccan without worshipping the God and Goddess, if that's a tradition that draws you. Or at least Neowiccan. I have to admit, I was only Wiccan for a short while before I realized it wasn't the right path for me.

You keep doing your own thing. Everything'll work out. :)

 
Thank you!! It was a Celtic Druid that told me that to call myself 'Pagan' was wrong because I haven't dedicated myself to a God and Goddess. When I replied that as I understood it, Pagan was a general term for someone that follows nature-based beliefs such as the power of the elements (Earth, Air, Fire, Water) she told me that I needed to choose a God & Goddess also.

It's not the deities that drew me to magic, it was the magic itself.

Mysty

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 10:39:19 pm »
Quote from: LuciferaRose;165125
That's BS. A couple of years ago, I was considering calling myself an Agnostic Pagan and a little google search can prove that it's possible to be agnostic and Pagan. :| Whomever told you that is grossly misinformed.

That being said, it's entirely possible to be Pagan without worshiping gods and there are non-theistic Pagans out there, so don't let anyone discourage you from that path if that's what you wish to take. You might have to do a little digging, but they're out there.

 
Thank you, LuciferaRose! This whole dilemma started for me because I referred to myself as an Agnostic Pagan Witch!!! I explained that I am Agnostic because I don't have a firm belief in Gods/Goddesses, Pagan because I do believe in the power of nature and the universe as a whole, and a Witch because I'm a spellcrafter/caster at heart. That was when the Celtic Druid woman posted a long blog that it wasn't possible to be Agnostic and Pagan. She said that anyone who believed they could be Agnostic and Pagan was nothing more than an Environmentalist. :mad:

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 10:55:04 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165126
Thank you!! It was a Celtic Druid that told me that to call myself 'Pagan' was wrong because I haven't dedicated myself to a God and Goddess. When I replied that as I understood it, Pagan was a general term for someone that follows nature-based beliefs such as the power of the elements (Earth, Air, Fire, Water) she told me that I needed to choose a God & Goddess also.

It's not the deities that drew me to magic, it was the magic itself.

 
Technically Pagan is an umbrella term under which many different religions fall, but you definitely fall under the umbrella! :)
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

Faemon

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 11:11:10 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165116
...

You might find this article to the contrary quite helpful.

Oddly enough, I get really annoyed when people pull out this Cartesian plane of beliefs and go, "You're either agnostic or gnostic, but you must also be either theist or atheist; agnostic atheist, agnostic theist, gnostic atheist, gnostic theist..." And I'm just like, uhh, if people want to call themselves agnostic then let them. Not everybody's inner world is shaped like a Cartesian plane! (But going by that, you can be an Agnostic Pagan/Theist.)

In any case: welcome, welcome to the wider pagan world! We're encouraged to respect the boundaries of initiatory religions and cultures, but identity policing like that Celtic Druid blogger you mentioned is massively not okay. (The premise, that is. I haven't actually read the blog.) If that ain't your clergy, shake it off. That's what I say.

There are so many other ways to work magic than devotional theism. There's psionics, chaos magick, New Age sort of magic specific to the things you're using like crystal magic or sigil magic or animal magic or even color magic, there's hedge-crossing and pathworking, kitchen witchcraft, direct magic...You don't need any religious affiliation to call yourself a witch.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 11:11:58 pm by Faemon »
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Mountain Cat

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 12:36:35 pm »
Quote from: Mysty;165127
Thank you, LuciferaRose! This whole dilemma started for me because I referred to myself as an Agnostic Pagan Witch!!! I explained that I am Agnostic because I don't have a firm belief in Gods/Goddesses, Pagan because I do believe in the power of nature and the universe as a whole, and a Witch because I'm a spellcrafter/caster at heart. That was when the Celtic Druid woman posted a long blog that it wasn't possible to be Agnostic and Pagan. She said that anyone who believed they could be Agnostic and Pagan was nothing more than an Environmentalist. :mad:

 

Just so you know that all Druid-y people don't think the same way as the Celtic Druid you mentioned, I do Druidry without reference to pagan gods/goddesses. Just thought I'd mention it , since I was scared away from Asatru by someone with a fairly narrow opinion of who could follow that path. It took showing up here to realise that the opinion of one person wasn't the opinion of all. Agnostic Pagan sounds like an interesting path, to me. I love all the variation I have discovered since finding this forum.

Sounds like you have an interesting path, Mysty!

Mysty

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 08:12:22 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;165130
You might find this article to the contrary quite helpful.

Oddly enough, I get really annoyed when people pull out this Cartesian plane of beliefs and go, "You're either agnostic or gnostic, but you must also be either theist or atheist; agnostic atheist, agnostic theist, gnostic atheist, gnostic theist..." And I'm just like, uhh, if people want to call themselves agnostic then let them. Not everybody's inner world is shaped like a Cartesian plane! (But going by that, you can be an Agnostic Pagan/Theist.)

In any case: welcome, welcome to the wider pagan world! We're encouraged to respect the boundaries of initiatory religions and cultures, but identity policing like that Celtic Druid blogger you mentioned is massively not okay. (The premise, that is. I haven't actually read the blog.) If that ain't your clergy, shake it off. That's what I say.

There are so many other ways to work magic than devotional theism. There's psionics, chaos magick, New Age sort of magic specific to the things you're using like crystal magic or sigil magic or animal magic or even color magic, there's hedge-crossing and pathworking, kitchen witchcraft, direct magic...You don't need any religious affiliation to call yourself a witch.

 
Thank you, Faemon. That article/blog was VERY helpful. Everyone I've met here so far has been so great in helping me reaffirm my path. I'm so grateful to all of you for showing me that I am Pagan whether  follow a specific deity or not.

Mysty

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 08:16:08 pm »
Quote from: Mountain Cat;165161
Just so you know that all Druid-y people don't think the same way as the Celtic Druid you mentioned, I do Druidry without reference to pagan gods/goddesses. Just thought I'd mention it , since I was scared away from Asatru by someone with a fairly narrow opinion of who could follow that path. It took showing up here to realise that the opinion of one person wasn't the opinion of all. Agnostic Pagan sounds like an interesting path, to me. I love all the variation I have discovered since finding this forum.

Sounds like you have an interesting path, Mysty!

 
Thank you, Mountain Cat!! My path thus far has been interesting to say the least, but I'm learning that it's MY path and the opinions of others about my path don't need to have any part of my path. Thanks to people like you that have assured me that my path doesn't have to be consumed by dedication to deities I feel much better :)

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 08:34:41 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;165129
Technically Pagan is an umbrella term under which many different religions fall, but you definitely fall under the umbrella! :)

 
I will add to this that many of those religions do not consider themselves 'nature based', and can get quite annoyed when someone insists that they are.

Mysty - there's no shortage of people in Pagandom who like to be prescriptivist about how other pagans are Doin It Rong. One sometimes wonders where they find time to tend to their own practices, they're so busy policing others. I consider myself agnostic as well, even though I practice religious Witchcraft (what I mean by it is, my perspective on deities/cosmology is not The Truth; it's just what I've sussed out, for my own practices, and could be completely out to lunch - I have no gnosis other than the purely personal). That has been known to shock people - usually ones who take their notions of How To Religion from the surrounding culture, in which Christianity's emphasis on 'right belief' (orthodoxy) is prevalent, and suppose that's what all religions are. But, most pagan religions/traditions focus more on practice.

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 08:45:24 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;165204


Mysty - there's no shortage of people in Pagandom who like to be prescriptivist about how other pagans are Doin It Rong. One sometimes wonders where they find time to tend to their own practices, they're so busy policing others.

Sunflower

 
I've noticed that the Cauldron is really, REALLY good about that. I've seen such acceptance here, and not seen a single person raise an eyebrow about my beliefs, its actually encouraged me to dabble in pop-culture paganismsm as well.

Where are the "U doon it rong" crowd here? Have all the assholes sworn a hallowed oath to their 'so much more authentic than your gods' gods that they shall shun the Cauldron? Are they so busy blessing their thick-rimmed glasses, donning their flannel shirts and making libations of Starbucks frappalattamochacoolattagrandachinos to the gods of Never-Sell-Out that they simply forgot us?

;)

Seriously, Mysty, no better place to find accepting people than here.
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veggiewolf

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Re: What am I?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 07:47:26 am »
Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;165206
...

Where are the "U doon it rong" crowd here? Have all the assholes sworn a hallowed oath to their 'so much more authentic than your gods' gods that they shall shun the Cauldron? Are they so busy blessing their thick-rimmed glasses, donning their flannel shirts and making libations of Starbucks frappalattamochacoolattagrandachinos to the gods of Never-Sell-Out that they simply forgot us?...

Oh, they banished us to wonder the Grey Mists for all eternity, and left.

(spelling error intentional)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 07:47:55 am by veggiewolf »
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