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Author Topic: Need A Little Help  (Read 2814 times)

Aspirine101

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Need A Little Help
« on: October 19, 2014, 03:25:01 pm »
Well, hello everyone! Been lurking for some time and found quite a bit of good material here, now I have a few questions that I would like to ask and hopefully you can answer them if you don't mind.

I'm still a "fresh meat" to paganism, and I've no idea what my path is yet, so for now I'm just researching and hoping to find more info.
I always loved the Norse pantheon but recently I feel drawn to Morrigan. Not sure why I feel so drawn towards Her, but for now I won't mess with the divine with the very little knowledge I have.

I decided I want to try meditating. Someone on a very old post on this forum linked this guide to someone else:
http://thebookoft.wordpress.com/knowledge/witchcraft-from-the-ground-up/preface/

When I started reading it I had to force myself to stop after section III because I couldn't reach Gnosis. However in the end, still not being able to reach gnosis or be out of body and reach the Astral world, I read the guide to the end (I was just too excited to stop).
The thing is that now I want to reach this so called Gnosis state. I get that it can be reached with pain, doing some activity like dancing or spinning, drugs or meditating.

The first one seems a little "painful" (obviously)
The second one would feel too uncomfortable for the quiet and rarely-moving (rarely even walking) me.
The third one is not something I'm going to even try.
And the fourth one, meditating, it seems just perfect.

Now for the question time:

1) I know this is a question that people might not like, and I too feel a little uncomfortable for asking (since it varies from person to person, I have to see what fits etc and a lot more reasons) but I still want to ask:
If you reached Gnosis, how long did it take you? Were you meditating everyday, and how much minutes/hours approximately did you spend per day? Again I'm sorry if this sounds bad but I'm really curious!


2) Well, I've started meditating and been doing it from time to time (I know I have to do it every day, and I WILL do it every day, but until now it was just sometimes) and I've encountered a few problems:

The first one being the problem I imagine everyone had when they were newbies, is that thoughts just pop into my head and something is forcing me to participate in them... sometimes I'll even start thinking about something deeply, and only when I "wake up" I realize that I shouldn't have been letting it go that deep inside the head.
It's less of a question, just wondering if there's something special to solve it other than practice, and how much (approximately) practice is required.

The second one is something I bet only a small percent of the people has, I get tears way too frequently if I'm doing something with open eyes. If I stare to someone right in the eyes, I'll get tears. If I see someone crying and I stare in his eyes, I get 10x more tears. When there's a lot of light my eyes hurt sometimes. A few weeks ago on a sunny day I went outside and my eyes hurt so much that I couldn't stand being under the sunlight. The problem is that while meditating, I'm focusing on something and staring at it, and tears start to fall from my eyes. I'm almost getting tears just by posting this and thinking about the tears I get from those things.
My question: What the hell is this tears and vampire problem? Can I fix it? For some reasons there were thoughts floating in my mind that if I stare at flames for too long my eyes will be "purified". No idea where those thoughts came from but I'm going to buy a candlestick (I don't have not even the basic one at home) and a candle and I'll stare at it until it diminishes.

The third one, I'm wondering if I even do it correctly. Sometimes I try to meditate with eyes open, staring in a window in the apartment in front of my house, sometimes I try with eyes closed, sometimes I feel the need to shake my head slowly either in a circle or up and down. I again feel that flames should help, I want to try to stare at them for a very long time, and then I'll see the results. Well this didn't turn out to be a question but I'll leave it here and edit later.

Really hope you know something about question 2. Will wait for the answers, and thanks in advance :)

Faemon

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 10:21:42 pm »
Quote from: Aspirine101;162865
1) If you reached Gnosis, how long did it take you? Were you meditating everyday, and how much minutes/hours approximately did you spend per day? Again I'm sorry if this sounds bad but I'm really curious!


The 30 minutes every day as suggested by the guide is, I think, sufficient. Practice is good, but quality is more important than quantity. At the same time, I could not tell you exactly how many minutes overall before I "caught" gnosis because it was so gradual. It's like asking what number of droplets caused an overflow.

Quote
2) Well, I've started meditating (...) and I've encountered a few problems:

The first one being the problem I imagine everyone had when they were newbies, is that thoughts just pop into my head and something is forcing me to participate in them... sometimes I'll even start thinking about something deeply, and only when I "wake up" I realize that I shouldn't have been letting it go that deep inside the head.
It's less of a question, just wondering if there's something special to solve it other than practice, and how much (approximately) practice is required.


I just practiced. However, I also had depression, and was medicated for that, so after years of practice the medication re-wired my brain so that my mind chatter was impossible to meditate through. I just explored other ways of meditating that were not in the guide, and that the guide even discouraged ("visualizations" and listening to recorded voices over new age music.) That still worked well enough for me.

So, for example, instead of trying to blank my mind out to reach gnosis, I would "ride the mind chatter" into an imaginary world of a crowded restaurant with imaginary people chattering. I learned later that Carl Jung called this Active Imagination, and while it won't lead to out-of-body experiences, I still consider it worthy of exploration.

Quote
while meditating, I'm focusing on something and staring at it, and tears start to fall from my eyes.


I started off meditating with eyes closed.

Quote
The third one, I'm wondering if I even do it correctly.


Whatever gets you in the right state of mind is correct, but of course you wouldn't know that until you try it, and sometimes not even then because you haven't gotten to the point where you find the gnosis that you seek. :p That's...actually normal, I think.


I hope this helps somewhat!
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Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 12:38:02 am »
Quote from: Faemon;162925

I hope this helps somewhat!

You definitely helped! Thank you very much!

Now that some things in my head are sorted, I know what I'll do - I'll continue trying to meditate the way I tried and see how it goes. Am also really tempted to stare at candle fire, for some reason it feels like it would be way better than what I do now.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 12:40:46 am by Aspirine101 »

Hematite

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 07:11:02 am »
Quote from: Aspirine101;162931
You definitely helped! Thank you very much!

Now that some things in my head are sorted, I know what I'll do - I'll continue trying to meditate the way I tried and see how it goes. Am also really tempted to stare at candle fire, for some reason it feels like it would be way better than what I do now.

 

Staring at a light for prolonged periods can really damage your eyes.

Though staring at smoke is pretty gentle. Maybe incense can help.

I really haven't gone very far in meditation, period, but the little success I have had came through watching smoke or going through a beginner yoga video enough that I didn't need to watch the pose.

Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 10:12:33 am »
Quote from: Hematite;162961
Staring at a light for prolonged periods can really damage your eyes.

Though staring at smoke is pretty gentle. Maybe incense can help.

I really haven't gone very far in meditation, period, but the little success I have had came through watching smoke or going through a beginner yoga video enough that I didn't need to watch the pose.

 
Interesting. I remember one time we made a fire and my father said that looking at fire is the best thing to make the eyes relax. Even way better than closing the eyes.

Looking at Smoke sounds good too. Still, I want to try the fire thing today. Apparently I do have candles, and today night I'm going to light one and see what happens.

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 02:30:39 pm »
Quote from: Hematite;162961
Staring at a light for prolonged periods can really damage your eyes.

 
Do you have a source for this?

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Shakas

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 03:15:24 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;163025
Do you have a source for this?

Sunflower


Probably depends on the wavelength and intensity of the light in question.  
https://www.macular.org/ultra-violet-and-blue-light
http://www.livescience.com/31949-led-lights-eye-damage.html

So a candle flame, being strong in the yellow and orange, is probably safe enough, but bright blue LEDs or other lights which emit strong light in the blue part of the spectrum...well, you might want to limit the duration/intensity of exposure.

Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 08:26:03 am »
Quote from: Shakas;163353
Probably depends on the wavelength and intensity of the light in question.  
https://www.macular.org/ultra-violet-and-blue-light
http://www.livescience.com/31949-led-lights-eye-damage.html

So a candle flame, being strong in the yellow and orange, is probably safe enough, but bright blue LEDs or other lights which emit strong light in the blue part of the spectrum...well, you might want to limit the duration/intensity of exposure.


Going to be just candle flame! Thank you :)

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 07:38:15 pm »
Quote from: Shakas;163353
Probably depends on the wavelength and intensity of the light in question.  
https://www.macular.org/ultra-violet-and-blue-light
http://www.livescience.com/31949-led-lights-eye-damage.html

So a candle flame, being strong in the yellow and orange, is probably safe enough, but bright blue LEDs or other lights which emit strong light in the blue part of the spectrum...well, you might want to limit the duration/intensity of exposure.

 
Yes, it was the sweeping undifferentiated 'a light' (especially in context of a discussion that centred on candlelight) that I was querying.

After all, anyone who is reading this is staring at a light that's probably brighter than a candle flame, and is (usually) doing so for long enough to read all the new posts.

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Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2014, 03:20:07 pm »
Quote from: Aspirine101;162865
*opening post*

 
Well just to let you know guys that I'm still trying! And I will try until I succeed.
I have a question about breathing. How important is the breathing factor? Do I have to focus on breathing or it would simply be more helpful to focus on it? Do I have to breath deeply and is it somehow matters that I only breath (both inhale & exhale) through the nose? And is it ok to leave my breath on "auto" mode?

Also I'm now trying to simply meditate with eyes closed, but even then after a few minutes I have some tears and I must open my eyes to release them. It's quite annoying. Is anyone familiar with this issue?

Faemon

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2014, 03:49:14 pm »
Quote from: Aspirine101;164588
How important is the breathing factor? Do I have to focus on breathing or it would simply be more helpful to focus on it? Do I have to breath deeply and is it somehow matters that I only breath (both inhale & exhale) through the nose? And is it ok to leave my breath on "auto" mode?


It depends. Try them all, see what works for you. :)

Quote
Also I'm now trying to simply meditate with eyes closed, but even then after a few minutes I have some tears and I must open my eyes to release them. It's quite annoying. Is anyone familiar with this issue?


Alas, that has not happened to me, tearing up because I had my eyes closed. I did have trouble with not squeezing my eyes shut at first, though. Maybe a blindfold would help?
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Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 12:45:35 am »
Quote from: Faemon;164590
It depends. Try them all, see what works for you. :)
Alrighty, thank you! For now my breath is mostly on "auto" mode, sometimes I'm trying to focus on breath to make them deeper, but usually I lose that focus for some reason.
In all cases, I'm inhaling and exhaling only through the nose.


Alas, that has not happened to me, tearing up because I had my eyes closed. I did have trouble with not squeezing my eyes shut at first, though. Maybe a blindfold would help?

I can close them but after I have some tears inside I must open my eyes to release them. I have tears from many things. Mostly from looking into someone's eyes directly, and if that person has tears too then it makes the situation even worse. I did never think that I will have tears with closed eyes. Maybe I'm playing the computer too much :/

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 06:25:03 pm »
Quote from: Aspirine101;164623
I can close them but after I have some tears inside I must open my eyes to release them. I have tears from many things. Mostly from looking into someone's eyes directly, and if that person has tears too then it makes the situation even worse. I did never think that I will have tears with closed eyes. Maybe I'm playing the computer too much :/

I found a source that has possible causes for your tears.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003036.htm
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 06:26:41 pm by HarpingHawke »
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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 12:23:35 am »
Quote from: Aspirine101;164623
I can close them but after I have some tears inside I must open my eyes to release them. I have tears from many things. Mostly from looking into someone's eyes directly, and if that person has tears too then it makes the situation even worse. I did never think that I will have tears with closed eyes. Maybe I'm playing the computer too much :/

 
My advice? If meditating isn't working too well, try something different. Honestly, I've always been confused at the nigh-mandatory nature of such an Eastern practice in European-descended paganism. Our ancestors had other ways of contacting the gods, so its not like meditation is the only thing on the block.

Go for a walk in the woods, especily at night.

Stare at the moon, and let your thoughts drift.

Stay up a few nights in a row (use a weekend or vacation time) and record what hallucinations you have.

Pray before bed, and drink a tea of bay and rosemary to induce dreams.

They're always other ways.
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Aspirine101

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Re: Need A Little Help
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2014, 02:10:30 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;164666
I found a source that has possible causes for your tears.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003036.htm


Thank you! For now the only cause I can confirm I have is allergy to dust. However, I know the kind of tears that come from the allergy, it's a different kind. Maybe I will go and see a doctor if it disturbs too much. For now I'll try some methods I have floating in my mind.

Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;164696
My advice? If meditating isn't working too well, try something different. Honestly, I've always been confused at the nigh-mandatory nature of such an Eastern practice in European-descended paganism. Our ancestors had other ways of contacting the gods, so its not like meditation is the only thing on the block.

Go for a walk in the woods, especily at night.

Stare at the moon, and let your thoughts drift.

Stay up a few nights in a row (use a weekend or vacation time) and record what hallucinations you have.

Pray before bed, and drink a tea of bay and rosemary to induce dreams.

They're always other ways.


I wish. I don't have any woods around me. I live in Israel (flag is ukrainian because I am ukrainian :P ) and there are some forests there but pretty far from where I live.
I so badly wish to live in those countries where you live in an extremely small town surrounded by woods and mountains :/ sadly I'm in the wrong place atm.

For now I'll stick with meditating. My "ultimate goal" would be reaching out of body, but that takes a lot of practice. So for now I practice.

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