Author Topic: Skills vs Tools (Read 3099 times)

Sefiru · « **on:** September 24, 2014, 07:39:31 pm »

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

I started out thinking about art and crafts, where there are some media which involve a lot of specialized tools (such as rubber stamping) whereas others involve a relatively small set of unspecialized materials (such as block printing).

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Also, cooking: some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

Valeria Crowe · « **Reply #1 on:** September 24, 2014, 07:51:10 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

I started out thinking about art and crafts, where there are some media which involve a lot of specialized tools (such as rubber stamping) whereas others involve a relatively small set of unspecialized materials (such as block printing).

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Also, cooking: some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

Depends.

For magick, I like a good dash of drama. Tools all around, ritual robes, wands knives and goblets, the whole bloody nine yards. Sets the mood.

For cooking and soap making, as few tools as possible. Saves cleanup time. Likewise for art projects, its amazing what you can do with a knife, a set of scissors, and cunning.

Voren · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2014, 07:56:49 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

I started out thinking about art and crafts, where there are some media which involve a lot of specialized tools (such as rubber stamping) whereas others involve a relatively small set of unspecialized materials (such as block printing).

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Also, cooking: some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

In your description of tools and skills here, I use no tools and only skill. I just really never found the need for tools I guess. I figured, I won't change something if it's working and I found skills that work without the use of tools (plus, being a starving artist myself, I can't really afford much).

Jenett · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2014, 08:36:57 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

There's two pieces for me.

First, that when we're learning to do something, using tools can help us learn to do it more easily, more consistently, or more reliably. (I am perfectly capable of casting a circle in a dozen different ways, but learning to do it with an athame helped me learn what the directed and focused energy should feel like in a way that doing it without a tool didn't.)

For people working in a group setting, it's not just about personal tools, too - there are tools that make certain ritual acts easier because they are imbued with particular energy or design choices that make it much easier to do things - so when someone is doing a new task, it's easier/more reliable for them to learn what's needed for that action. (Just like it's possible to learn to ride a bike without training wheels, but for a lot of people, training wheels really do help.)

Then there's the other part. I've been dealing with substantial chronic health concerns for the past four years (well after I got my 3rd degree, and well after completing the training in my tradition.) I know a lot of tricks to manage my energy and make the most of it - but using appropriate, well-designed, charged tools has, a number of times in those four years, made a difference between managing to do structured ritual and not.

Because the tools remember how the energy should flow, and enhance it, and even if I have *less* energy, with the tools, I can make the most of it.

I use the tools I need to do the *work* I want to do - just like I will drive my car to save my body so I have more brain for the tasks I want to do, or use tools to help me prepare food in a way that helps my body.

random417 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2014, 09:01:25 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

I started out thinking about art and crafts, where there are some media which involve a lot of specialized tools (such as rubber stamping) whereas others involve a relatively small set of unspecialized materials (such as block printing).

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Also, cooking: some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

I tend to like approaches that combine a bit of both. Of course, some things can't be done without tools (magically, scrying is quite difficult without something to scry in/on), but in a lot of cases, proper use of a tool is a skill in and of itself (again, scrying comes to mind). Outside of those however, sometimes in magic, at least for me, a tool can help me learn a skill, like training wheels on a bike. Once I have the skill, sometimes I add the tool because it's cool, sometimes I don't. Depends on my mood. For anything difficult, I haul tools out again, but then again, if I'm gonna get my pedal bike up to 60 mph (about 100 kph I think, for those that use that) I'll throw training wheels back on it if I've got them, as it might give me an edge

random417 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2014, 09:03:54 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Of course, it also bears consideration that I consider things like correspondences/mantra/visualizations to be tools themselves. From that standpoint, you could say I'm never without tools.

In this discussion, they are both tools and skills in my mind

*edited to add a line*

Faemon · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2014, 09:18:33 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

...some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Well, when the occasion calls for it. I mean, I love to cook and bake, but I currently do not have an oven. This has given me the sads, but hey, I still gotta eat! Artistic expression can be a need too. And magic, for the given value of magic, can also be a need--I'm speaking from the standpoint of somebody who grew up sensitive and sort of got the sense that everybody used magic without knowing it, therefore didn't "use magic" until it got on the noticeable end of the spectrum such as a wish, prayer, hope or healing from a de-facto "curse".

It might be more of a True Artist to only use a pencil, but if Scrivener really helps you save time, if Calibre eBook formatting makes your work more accessible to people who will pay you to keep up your craft...then I think that can become part of the process. Inspiration itself won't leave you, but if you can express inspiration through the pencil through the typewriter through the software all the way up to whatever bells and whistles, then I don't see why one must limit themselves to submitting a handwritten manuscript to somebody's slushpile. I mean...what's the good of your artistic vision and your craft if it can't be read due to lack of tools?

It sort of reminds me Tiffany Aching (my favorite fictional witch) in Wintersmith I think it was, where she has this pendant of the Uffington White Horse because as a witch, she was the land in part. Her mentors were kind of at her to use tools but never, ever need them, but when she goes, "I can't throw it away," her mentor asks, "Can't or won't?" She replies, "Can't and won't!"

They're one thing when they're one thing. I could only use my mind instead of hand gestures or songs, but if I have hands and a song and a tactile-kinaesthetic learning style and an audient learning style then...it happens so when it happens.

Sefiru · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2014, 07:26:30 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;160209

First, that when we're learning to do something, using tools can help us learn to do it more easily, more consistently, or more reliably.

That's a good point and something I hadn't thought of.

Quote

Then there's the other part. I've been dealing with substantial chronic health concerns for the past four years (well after I got my 3rd degree, and well after completing the training in my tradition.) I know a lot of tricks to manage my energy and make the most of it - but using appropriate, well-designed, charged tools has, a number of times in those four years, made a difference between managing to do structured ritual and not.

I guess this is a whole other point: using tools in order to overcome limitations. Which I suppose is the whole point of most tools, when it comes down to it.

Sefiru · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2014, 07:47:03 pm »

Quote from: Faemon;160215

It might be more of a True Artist to only use a pencil, but if Scrivener really helps you save time, if Calibre eBook formatting makes your work more accessible to people who will pay you to keep up your craft...then I think that can become part of the process. Inspiration itself won't leave you, but if you can express inspiration through the pencil through the typewriter through the software all the way up to whatever bells and whistles, then I don't see why one must limit themselves to submitting a handwritten manuscript to somebody's slushpile. I mean...what's the good of your artistic vision and your craft if it can't be read due to lack of tools?

I was originally thinking less about the technological sophistication of tools, than about their specialization. I mean, a pencil and Photoshop are both very general tools (that can do a wide range of things), while a stencil and FaceGoo are more specialized tools (I can't think of an example to do with writing that illustrates my point)

I'm not about to avoid using a specialized tool just because it's specialized; sometimes, a specialized tool really is the best tool for the job (such as a corkscrew).

Computers are, in some ways, the ultimate generalized tool. My smartphone performs the functions of a whole suitcase full of more specialized devices: camera, GPS, sketchpad, video games, even a sand-timer.

Lana288 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2014, 08:25:00 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, since it touches on various areas. Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the spectrum of skills vs tools.

I started out thinking about art and crafts, where there are some media which involve a lot of specialized tools (such as rubber stamping) whereas others involve a relatively small set of unspecialized materials (such as block printing).

Similarly, there are schools of magic that involve dozens of herbs or crystals, each with a specific function, while other schools of magic use no tools other than the practitioner's will.

Also, cooking: some people can produce meals using only a few pots and knives, while others use every gadget from avocado slicers to zucchini curlers.

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

Personally, I tend to value skills more than tools; for one thing, they take up less space, but I also admit I have a bit of True Artiste snobbery going on (a pencil is all I need, HA!).

In ritual/prayer, I tend to like my tools. I know that *technically* I'm supposed to be able to pray without all the little nice things, but it's still pleasant to be able to work with something to focus on. (I'm *guessing* that holy images, bowls and water all count as tools)

In general life, though, I tend towards wanting skills before tools because while tools can be lost, skills are forever. (And while I know that some tools aren't likely to be just 'lost, I'm a little paranoid that it'll happen anyway. Sosueme)

Quote from: Sefiru;160273

I'm not about to avoid using a specialized tool just because it's specialized; sometimes, a specialized tool really is the best tool for the job (such as a corkscrew).

Good point. With this in mind, I suppose that it depends on the job I want done. E.g. I'd want a tool to open a can, but I can't think of any tool that'd help me to write a story better than a skill would.

Faemon · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2014, 09:50:40 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;160273

I was originally thinking less about the technological sophistication of tools, than about their specialization.

Ah, well I didn't mean to refer to sophistication or specialization. Basically, I concur with Jenett:

Quote from: Jenett;160209

when we're learning to do something, using tools can help us learn to do it more easily, more consistently, or more reliably.

Acting out a thought process is part of the thought process to me, was the point I meant to make. Some "thoughts" (for the greater than given value of thought) wouldn't be complete without the experience of acting it out to follow. There's something I picked up about situated cognition, which can be embodied (mind is brain and body), or extended/expanded, basically one of those meaning that writing something down makes it technically part of the mind even though it's out there in the world...and, another even goes on to propose that writing something down to remember later and actually remembering it later (regardless of whether you write it down or not) are the same thing.

SunflowerP · « **Reply #11 on:** September 26, 2014, 12:22:23 am »

Quote from: Sefiru;160273

I mean, a pencil and Photoshop are both very general tools (that can do a wide range of things), while a stencil and FaceGoo are more specialized tools (I can't think of an example to do with writing that illustrates my point)

Computers are, in some ways, the ultimate generalized tool.

Here's a writing-related example for you: the word processor - not word-processing programs for multipurpose computers, but dedicated word processing machines.

Going back to the original question, count me in with those who don't think it's an either/or question. All the carpentry skills in the world don't much matter, if you don't have a hammer (or at the very least, a fist-sized rock) to pound the nails in - but if you don't have enough skill to drive a nail straight, your results will be substandard at best no matter how expensive and high-quality your hammer is.

(For nitpickers [of whom I am often one]: yes, I know that there are other kinds of joins. I don't have the skills to even construct good analogy with them - but I'm fairly good at hammering carpentry nails straight while not hammering fingernails

.)

Sunflower

Kylara · « **Reply #12 on:** September 26, 2014, 10:22:26 am »

Quote from: Sefiru;160202

So my question is, if there is a task that can be done with a tool or with a skill, which do you tend to choose? How or why do you choose one over the other?

For me, it is a combination of what I have and what makes me happy. Sometimes I just don't have the tools (or supplies, or locations...or whatever specialized stuff might be used). I would rather make a change and work with skill (even if it is harder or might be less effective) than not do anything because I don't have the stuff I think I should use.

On the other hand, I'm a bit of a shiny-loving pack-rat, so I like using stuff. Though there is a purity and simplicity of doing without tools, there is a kind of luxury for me in using tools. It's kind of like breaking out the good silverwear to eat dinner.

Sefiru · « **Reply #13 on:** September 26, 2014, 06:14:34 pm »

Quote from: Kylara;160350

On the other hand, I'm a bit of a shiny-loving pack-rat, so I like using stuff. Though there is a purity and simplicity of doing without tools, there is a kind of luxury for me in using tools. It's kind of like breaking out the good silverwear to eat dinner.

Oh, I can definitely understand this feeling too.

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