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Author Topic: Weird Belief Contradictions  (Read 4991 times)

Scales

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Weird Belief Contradictions
« on: September 22, 2014, 03:47:48 pm »
I'm curious if you have any, or if you see them from other people. The specific kind I'm thinking of are ones where you generally don't believe in something, but something about it is ingrained hugely so you still believe it anyway, if that makes sense?

For example:
1) My dad is not religious. However, he was raised in a very Christian household, and despite not believing in Christianity anymore, still will refuse to do things forbidden by his upbringing, not by his parents but by their god, even if there's no logical reason for him to still do so and he knows it.

2) My mom is not religious either, and her family is barely. She thinks believing in magic and fairies is for kids, ghosts don't exist, and so on. Even if there's some grain of spirituality about higher purpose, she very much  does not believe in any sort of entities, deity or otherwise, or manifested energy, or whatever. So that's all pretty normal and basic, I think.

She is, however, terrified of ouija boards. I was forbidden to use one when I was younger, and when she started getting me books about witchy stuff, she asked specifically, several times, if I was contacting anything, or doing anything 'dark.'

3) My aunt too is the general not-christian-anymore-and-apathetic type, see^ all the stuff about her sister (my mom). She encouraged her daughter to believe in fairies, but she would be the one giving my cousin 'fairy gifts' to feed the belief.

It is a longer and interesting story, so I will maybe add it later, but the short of it is that despite the above, if you ask her at the right time/mood, she will tell you about how her friend was possessed by a demon, and another was pestered by a witch (this is the long part).

3a) The friend with the witch bothering her was apparently the most rational, mundane-explanation-finding person there is, but she is sure that the witch put a love spell on her husband.

Anyway, does anyone else have friends', family members', or even just your own slightly mismatched beliefs to talk about, in this vein?

Pix

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 04:39:31 pm »
Quote from: Scales;159807
Anyway, does anyone else have friends', family members', or even just your own slightly mismatched beliefs to talk about, in this vein?

I think the most disturbing I've heard of was a friend raised fundie Christian who became an atheist. When Prop 8 (CA vote that defined marriage as between a man and a woman in the Californian constitution) was up for voting on she voted against it but despite not believing in God, she felt terrible guilt at some irrational level voting against Prop 8 "as if God was terribly disappointed in me." She was angry at herself for feeling that because she knows it's stupid, and even if she believed in that God she'd gladly defy Him on principle.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 04:41:14 pm by Pix »
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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 07:36:30 pm »
Quote from: Pix;159814
I think the most disturbing I've heard of was a friend raised fundie Christian who became an atheist. When Prop 8 (CA vote that defined marriage as between a man and a woman in the Californian constitution) was up for voting on she voted against it but despite not believing in God, she felt terrible guilt at some irrational level voting against Prop 8 "as if God was terribly disappointed in me." She was angry at herself for feeling that because she knows it's stupid, and even if she believed in that God she'd gladly defy Him on principle.

 
Think that's bad? I've heard atheists talk about still having nightmares about going to hell years after what they call deconverting.

The more conservative types of Christianity weild guilt like a set of shackles.
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PrincessKLS

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 08:16:44 pm »
Quote from: Scales;159807
I'm curious if you have any, or if you see them from other people. The specific kind I'm thinking of are ones where you generally don't believe in something, but something about it is ingrained hugely so you still believe it anyway, if that makes sense?

For example:
1) My dad is not religious. However, he was raised in a very Christian household, and despite not believing in Christianity anymore, still will refuse to do things forbidden by his upbringing, not by his parents but by their god, even if there's no logical reason for him to still do so and he knows it.

2) My mom is not religious either, and her family is barely. She thinks believing in magic and fairies is for kids, ghosts don't exist, and so on. Even if there's some grain of spirituality about higher purpose, she very much  does not believe in any sort of entities, deity or otherwise, or manifested energy, or whatever. So that's all pretty normal and basic, I think.

She is, however, terrified of ouija boards. I was forbidden to use one when I was younger, and when she started getting me books about witchy stuff, she asked specifically, several times, if I was contacting anything, or doing anything 'dark.'

3) My aunt too is the general not-christian-anymore-and-apathetic type, see^ all the stuff about her sister (my mom). She encouraged her daughter to believe in fairies, but she would be the one giving my cousin 'fairy gifts' to feed the belief.

It is a longer and interesting story, so I will maybe add it later, but the short of it is that despite the above, if you ask her at the right time/mood, she will tell you about how her friend was possessed by a demon, and another was pestered by a witch (this is the long part).

3a) The friend with the witch bothering her was apparently the most rational, mundane-explanation-finding person there is, but she is sure that the witch put a love spell on her husband.

Anyway, does anyone else have friends', family members', or even just your own slightly mismatched beliefs to talk about, in this vein?

 

Even though I'm a Christopagan and I didn't exactly identify as a Christian in high school, I still have issues surrounding my sexuality and how to express it. Even my pagan sister (because of our upbringing) that taught me about paganism and LGBT tolerance, had issues with sexuality as well and passed them down to me. I grew up with contradictory ideologies. Such as wait until marriage (or at least age 18) and/or use a condom/contraception before marriage.
PrincessKLS

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 03:39:51 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;159853
I grew up with contradictory ideologies. Such as wait until marriage (or at least age 18) and/or use a condom/contraception before marriage.

 
The idea of using contraception as a teen actually seems pretty sound to me.
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Redfaery

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 03:44:15 am »
Quote from: Scales;159807
I'm curious if you have any, or if you see them from other people. The specific kind I'm thinking of are ones where you generally don't believe in something, but something about it is ingrained hugely so you still believe it anyway, if that makes sense?

 
I was raised Roman Catholic. I am no longer Roman Catholic. However, I still get very defensive when people start dissing Catholicism. Part of me just knee-jerks and goes "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL, HERETIC!!!"

Still, another part of it is that it was part of my upbringing, and that when people insult the veneration of Mary and the Saints, or the ritual of the Mass, I feel like they're insulting my family.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 06:51:50 am »
Quote from: Scales;159807
Anyway, does anyone else have friends', family members', or even just your own slightly mismatched beliefs to talk about, in this vein?


My dad raised me atheist, but would not brook any disbelief of fairies.

Allaya

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 10:27:16 am »
Quote from: Siren;159877
My dad raised me atheist, but would not brook any disbelief of fairies.

 
I consider myself rather atheist and have a firm belief (brought via experience) of nature spirits/wights.

I don't see the contradiction. Halp? :confused:
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Siren

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 11:36:01 am »
Quote from: Allaya;159893
I consider myself rather atheist and have a firm belief (brought via experience) of nature spirits/wights.

I don't see the contradiction. Halp? :confused:


Most people I've met who don't believe in type A of supernatural being, also don't believe in type B of supernatural being. I guess it's more surprising to me than contradictory per se, but it's in the same vein as the original post so I figured it counted. :)

Scales

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 02:41:30 pm »
Quote from: Pix;159814
I think the most disturbing I've heard of was a friend raised fundie Christian who became an atheist. When Prop 8 (CA vote that defined marriage as between a man and a woman in the Californian constitution) was up for voting on she voted against it but despite not believing in God, she felt terrible guilt at some irrational level voting against Prop 8 "as if God was terribly disappointed in me." She was angry at herself for feeling that because she knows it's stupid, and even if she believed in that God she'd gladly defy Him on principle.

 
Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;159843
Think that's bad? I've heard atheists talk about still having nightmares about going to hell years after what they call deconverting.

The more conservative types of Christianity weild guilt like a set of shackles.

 
Quote from: PrincessKLS;159853
Even though I'm a Christopagan and I didn't exactly identify as a Christian in high school, I still have issues surrounding my sexuality and how to express it. Even my pagan sister (because of our upbringing) that taught me about paganism and LGBT tolerance, had issues with sexuality as well and passed them down to me. I grew up with contradictory ideologies. Such as wait until marriage (or at least age 18) and/or use a condom/contraception before marriage.


So these all took a more depressing turn than I was hoping for this thread, but it's still really interesting to read, so thank you for replying.
 
Quote from: Redfaery;159870
I was raised Roman Catholic. I am no longer Roman Catholic. However, I still get very defensive when people start dissing Catholicism. Part of me just knee-jerks and goes "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL, HERETIC!!!"

Still, another part of it is that it was part of my upbringing, and that when people insult the veneration of Mary and the Saints, or the ritual of the Mass, I feel like they're insulting my family.

 
I definitely get the second part. I wasn't even religious growing up and I still expect to be struck down when I make off colour jokes about (abrahamic) God, Jesus and family, etc.

Quote from: Siren;159877
My dad raised me atheist, but would not brook any disbelief of fairies.

 
Quote from: Siren;159899
Most people I've met who don't believe in type A of supernatural being, also don't believe in type B of supernatural being. I guess it's more surprising to me than contradictory per se, but it's in the same vein as the original post so I figured it counted. :)

 
Yes, this was more the direction I was going in (although again, the top ones as well, and they are interesting). Perhaps 'contradicting' was the wrong word for the title. Maybe "Confusing (although not entirely unusual) Mixtures of Beliefs" would have worked better. I was trying to avoid making it sound like mixing paradigms in paganism though, because unless it's particularly unusual, that's not what I was getting at.

Faemon

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 10:33:48 pm »
Quote from: Scales;159807
I'm curious if you have any, or if you see them from other people. The specific kind I'm thinking of are ones where you generally don't believe in something, but something about it is ingrained hugely so you still believe it anyway, if that makes sense?

 
It makes sense to me in the meta way that "sense" is a construct rather than a natural phenomenon. We'd like to believe in the unity of consciousness and supremacy of will, because those are simple and effective.

I've got a lot of stuff ingrained. I try go against the ingrain as often as possible. Why do I still pray with clasped hands? Why is my chosen alternative palms-up-and-out in supplication when the sky isn't more divine than the earth or ocean, and hands aren't more expressive than elbows?

Tiny gestures like that get me wondering and dissecting, so more thematic or cosmological (or cosmo-lack-of-logical) ideas, lots of them, definitely get broken down into weird and contradictory effects. Regardless if I stop thinking about it and observe the mystery, the contradiction may still show through the way that I live.
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Heart&Mind

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2014, 08:45:59 am »
Quote from: Scales;159807


Anyway, does anyone else have friends', family members', or even just your own slightly mismatched beliefs to talk about, in this vein?

 

Personally, even though I believe in God and other divinities, I don't really believe in an afterlife. At least not a literal one. I've gotten into so many debates with people on how I could believe in God, but not in a "reward" after death.

Also, I sometimes still go to church with my mom even though I'm no longer Christian. She still wants me to go with her on Easter, Mother's Day, and Christmas Eve, and I just don't have the heart to tell her that I don't believe in her religion anymore.
God, as we call it, is the divine manifesting itself in nature; which itself carries the essence of the gods and spirits.

Scales

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2014, 01:03:12 pm »
Quote from: Heart&Mind;160118
Personally, even though I believe in God and other divinities, I don't really believe in an afterlife. At least not a literal one. I've gotten into so many debates with people on how I could believe in God, but not in a "reward" after death.

Also, I sometimes still go to church with my mom even though I'm no longer Christian. She still wants me to go with her on Easter, Mother's Day, and Christmas Eve, and I just don't have the heart to tell her that I don't believe in her religion anymore.

 
I was thinking about posting your first one as well, so high five?

I totally understand the second. My close family couldn't care less about my religion (other than, apparently, that it doesn't involve demons or ouija boards), but my Oma does not have to know.

Heart&Mind

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2014, 02:22:12 pm »
Quote from: Scales;160147
I was thinking about posting your first one as well, so high five?


Cyber high five!

Quote
I totally understand the second. My close family couldn't care less about my religion (other than, apparently, that it doesn't involve demons or ouija boards), but my Oma does not have to know.


Oma? You don't happen to be Korean, do you? If so, 안녕*!


*I'm not Korean, but one of my friends is.
God, as we call it, is the divine manifesting itself in nature; which itself carries the essence of the gods and spirits.

Scales

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Re: Weird Belief Contradictions
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2014, 04:19:41 pm »
Quote from: Heart&Mind;160156
Cyber high five!

Oma? You don't happen to be Korean, do you? If so, 안녕*!

*I'm not Korean, but one of my friends is.

 
Canadian, my Oma's Dutch, she's my grandmother :) But Annyeong is my mouse's name.

(in case anyone's thinking 'why not just say your grandma then?' I used 'Oma' instead of 'grandmother' to differentiate from not wanting to tell my family/elders vs not her as an individual)

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