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Author Topic: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?  (Read 4960 times)

Mikie

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Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« on: August 28, 2014, 03:11:05 pm »
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 03:13:06 pm by Mikie »

Faemon

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 03:27:12 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
Please let me know what you think!

Ultimately, I understand the creation of the universe , and the branes weren't flat so there was a ripple in the bang that formed the creation of the universe. That's why there's matter and vacuum, and the lumpy bits stuck together and burned, the burning things made elements, and when they died the materials stuck together into planets, which began to develop into matter that was later classified as living versus nonliving, the living things developed further, and then began to tell stories. That's where mythology came from, although this paragraph is a piece of personal mythology too.

In a story that goes more like: nothing, something, chaos, giants, gods...Well, I would still say that articulates rather than invents the gods. The gods were already present, and that's the story about how they came to be present.

So, it's like...or likely, like...a tangent line, rather than a parallel or...collinear...telling. The gods, if they tell stories, might very well have their own tales but let us have these because theirs just doesn't translate.

I mean, I try to transcend the story to the truth, I had this theory about pure truth that gets twisted by our senses and reasoning into an experience, and if we broke out of that or grew out of that then maybe--but, now I've accepted that everything I have is a story.

That doesn't mean I can't be honest or check or touchback to reality and discoveries in reality; only that, you know, I can only work within my limitations. My consciousness right now doesn't trackback to the birth of the universe.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 03:29:20 pm by Faemon »
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 06:26:45 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
I think it is unknown, unknowable, and aside from that not terribly interesting, I'm afraid.  The origins of the universe are so far removed from anything of practical, meaningful significance that I can't actually force myself to believe they have significance.

The gods that I personally deal with have theophanies that are actually present in the world I live in: storms and animals and plants and stars and particular forms of social interaction.  Whether those gods also have theophanies in plasma and subatomic particles in a universe too hot to have hydrogen is not something I'm going to be able to determine; I suspect it's far more likely that any gods of those conditions are rather more rarefied than gods that deal with ordinary matter, and probably don't care much about ordinary matter.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

random417

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 06:57:12 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)
I believe that the universe is the body of the Divine (God in a monotheistic sense), or that the Divine is the mind of the universe. The Gods, along with everything else, ourselves included, are kind of "thoughts" this Divine is having. I kept it simple, but that's the basics of my beliefs there. I imagine that the universe and the Divine co created each other, or were born at the same time.

Ultimately I agree that it's unknowable, so it's just a working theory.
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AL 1:42-44

Castus

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 09:08:08 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.
4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.

-Genesis 1:1-4, Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition


And when I was a pagan, I believed the gods sprang ex nihilo into existence.
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 10:35:37 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
This lines up reasonably well with what I'm inclined to believe.

The sciencey part of me has been pondering recently whether deity might perhaps be an emergent phenomenon  that arises from the soupiness of quantum reality much like instabilities in the atmosphere can coalesce into a storm or tornado (which is far more tangible and easier for us ground-dwellers to relate to).
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PrincessAstrid

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 11:06:15 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
I believe the universe came first. From that universe, the gods came about. If you go by some ancient Egyptian myths, the gods came from the creative chaos that was the universe before there was creation. (Super basic version of it, anyhow). This pretty much lines up with how I see it, personally.

I'm not sure how I feel about understanding the place of the gods in the cosmos vs our place in the cosmos. Then again, I've never really thought about my place in the cosmos. It's not something that's really been a concern of mine.

missgraceless

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 06:43:28 am »
Quote from: Castus;157506
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.
4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.

-Genesis 1:1-4, Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition


And when I was a pagan, I believed the gods sprang ex nihilo into existence.

I'm not one to knock religions, but I've always had a... disagreement with the biblical creation story. As the third verse says, God created light, but what was the source of that light? He didn't create the sun until a day or two later.

On a more related-to-the-OP note, I do slightly believe in the Big Bang theory, and that the gods are a manifestation of millennia of our collective thoughts and needs for explanation of the world.

Simply put, universe came first, then evolution, then we created the gods.
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 05:55:14 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
I tend to think that chaos/the ultimate source created Dievas, who then organized the universe with his brother (who he created? Geez. Myths.). The fact that that is at odds with a hundred other creation myths doesn't bother me much, as I tend to view it as a combination of analogy and truth... yeah. My theology.

Mountain Cat

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2014, 06:34:48 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 

My (sometimes tentative and wishy-washy) belief/idea is that the universe came into being. Science may one day definitively understand and describe how. We are all one with the universe. We are star-stuff as the saying goes. The universe-as-god contains an aspect of divinity--whatever that may be. When, at some point, the gods came into being they also had some aspect of divinity, though in smaller/different amounts than the universe-god. Humans have some divinity, too, though in different doses. Those with slightly larger doses find it easier to see the gods and experience the otherworld(s).

Land spirits and varying other beings also have part of this divine in them. As does all of nature and all animals. And all beings on other worlds. To me it's like an aspect. And ingredient. That Which Animates All. Something the Universe has passed down to all of us. We all have just as much as we need. Those with smaller amounts are not lesser beings, just differently evolved. But nothing can exist without it.

And, yeah, the universe-as-god loves us all. :)

Juniperberry

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2014, 09:58:33 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
I think the universe may be the god/s. I almost said, "in such a profound way that we can't comprehend it", but I think maybe we can. I think this (the everything we experience) is really as 'real' as it gets, and instead of seeking for more answers, we should be present in what Is.
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2014, 10:10:17 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)
I believe the Gods sprang from the creation of the universe. Not really sure how the universe was created, but I believe the Gods sprang from that creation!
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2014, 04:16:58 am »
Quote from: missgraceless;157559
Simply put, universe came first, then evolution, then we created the gods.

Since I believe everything is enspirited, I believe everything has a god of some kind within it. The gods evolve with the evolution of the universe, therefore. For me it goes:

-primal matter, with primal forces that I could never understand associated with it
-the emergence of land, sea and sky, with their forces, including the Fomori - the giants (one of whom is my patron)
-the emergence of civilization, with its gods the Tuatha De Danann.

This is a developing personal mythology for me, and one which is always shifting. But in my thought, we didn't create the gods, but they evolved with the universe and with us.

I like seeing things this way. Is it accurate? No idea. Is it useful to me? Very.
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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 01:43:33 am »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter.

My view is that the Universe is a god, the primordial deity. The gods, in the commonly understood sense, came "afterwards". Thing is, I think that the universe is more than just the physical universe. I believe that the observable universe is the physical manifestation of the gods, and that the universe didn't take physical form until the gods began to exist.

Alice

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Re: Which came first, the Universe or the Gods?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 03:29:51 pm »
Quote from: Mikie;157421
I would love nothing more than to hear what you believe on the matter. I personally believe that the Goddesses/Gods are a product of the Universe rather than the thought that the universe was created by a God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses. I feel that if one can find an understanding of a Deity's relation the the cosmos, it is only a stones throw from being able to understand our roll in the cosmos as well as our progression through time and space both physically and spiritually.

Please let me know what you think!
:)

 
For me its like what a few people here have said, the universe and the gods are synonymous.

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