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Author Topic: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)  (Read 17640 times)

Darkhawk

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2014, 06:53:48 pm »
Quote from: Neteruhemta RaShuSet;157712
Is this an instance where the report button would be utilized? I haven't used it, but isn't there a space to add reasoning when a report is sent in?

 
I believe it may be the case that reports won't submit without an explanation for what is being reported, but I'm not 100% certain.  (I know that some things in the code require the blank filled in to go through, and some do not.)

Historically speaking, when we have gotten reports, we check the reported text for the problem in the text of the report.  Sometimes it is obvious that it is or is not a problem; sometimes someone goes to look at the thread in context.  (Sometimes there is a delay, because we prefer to have a staffer who has not been actively involved in a contentious situation do moderation, both because we recognise that when we have been heavily engaged we may be more emotional about our responses and because we do not want to give impressions of abuse of staff power.)

When the reports have been explicitly about racist behaviour (I actually can't recall other -isms being regular, but given the tendencies of racist fuckwittery to show up in various paganisms that is unfortunately one of the more common ones) they have led to prompt warnings when a staffer is available and occasionally immediate bans.  (In fact, I reported some racist behaviour in chat a few months ago that led to an immediate permanent ban when I provided the log to staff for discussion, along with corroborating IP information, as I expected it would.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

RandallS

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2014, 07:27:51 pm »
Quote from: savvy;157672
It's really nice to have this clarity, I'm sure lots of people have been curious about how staff are selected and knowing how that happens gives the forum more transparency.


I just realized that it might help to explain why staff selection is so strict.  Staff members act independently most of the time. When a problem occurs the first staff member to see it (or see it reported) usually handles it. We don't usually have a big consultation over it (although staff members are free to boot issues up to Senior Staff/Hosts if they do not feel they can handle it). So we need staff members who know the board rules and view them pretty much the way the Hosts intent them to be enforced.

For example, we can't have people on staff who are going to moderate people who aren't actually breaking the rules just because they are saying unpopular things or are making some members uncomfortable with their positions. Even the Hosts do not ban or mod people just because they don't like what they are saying or the way they are saving it -- they have to either be breaking the rules or being such an annoyance that they are harming the board (and normally only the Co-Hosts can ban someone for "being so annoying that they are harming the board" -- and they generally only do so long after most of the rest of the staff would have banned the person).

The the board rules and the way staff are expected to behave are much different than they are on many boards. Agreeing with staff isn't required and staff members aren't allowed to terrorize members who dare to state opinions they do not like. Hell, on many boards a member like Stephy (who regularly holds positions that admin-level members disagree with and who does not hesitate to make her displeasure with some admin positions known -- as this thread has demonstrated) would have been banned long ago. On TC, I just argue with her. Sometimes, she even wins a partial victory. :)
Randall
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RandallS

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2014, 07:30:34 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;157715
I believe it may be the case that reports won't submit without an explanation for what is being reported, but I'm not 100% certain.  (I know that some things in the code require the blank filled in to go through, and some do not.)


I'm not certain either. I just wish the software would provide a multi-line text entry area in for reports to moderator instead of the small single line area it provides. As far as I know there is no limit on the amount of text a members can use, but only being able to see 60 characters or so of your message at a time makes it hard to send a long message.
Randall
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stephyjh

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2014, 08:34:14 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;157723
I just realized that it might help to explain why staff selection is so strict.  Staff members act independently most of the time. When a problem occurs the first staff member to see it (or see it reported) usually handles it. We don't usually have a big consultation over it (although staff members are free to boot issues up to Senior Staff/Hosts if they do not feel they can handle it). So we need staff members who know the board rules and view them pretty much the way the Hosts intent them to be enforced.



For example, we can't have people on staff who are going to moderate people who aren't actually breaking the rules just because they are saying unpopular things or are making some members uncomfortable with their positions. Even the Hosts do not ban or mod people just because they don't like what they are saying or the way they are saving it -- they have to either be breaking the rules or being such an annoyance that they are harming the board (and normally only the Co-Hosts can ban someone for "being so annoying that they are harming the board" -- and they generally only do so long after most of the rest of the staff would have banned the person).



The the board rules and the way staff are expected to behave are much different than they are on many boards. Agreeing with staff isn't required and staff members aren't allowed to terrorize members who dare to state opinions they do not like. Hell, on many boards a member like Stephy (who regularly holds positions that admin-level members disagree with and who does not hesitate to make her displeasure with some admin positions known -- as this thread has demonstrated) would have been banned long ago. On TC, I just argue with her. Sometimes, she even wins a partial victory. :)


 
Actually, Randall, I've struggled really hard with whether I felt safe saying as much as I have. I just care enough about the issue that I didn't feel like I could live with not saying anything. We're talking about issues that have shaped who I am and the direction my life has taken, and while you can treat it as a position I hold, the issue of what racism is and how it affects a person is an integral part of growing up a minority, particularly mixed-race like me, doing the balancing act between passing and faking.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

RandallS

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2014, 08:29:02 am »
Quote from: Neteruhemta RaShuSet;157611
I feel there could be a place where there are articles or pages addressing different problematic subjects. Then when it happens in a thread, someone can point out, "this is problematic for this reason" and link to those resources where the poster can read why there are problems with it.

This is possible, but problematic because some has to write each of those pages. And for something like this where people reading it are likely to take what is written as some type of "official policy" for TC, that person either has to be a staff member or at least willing to rewrite parts of it that might confuse people into thinking something is "official TC opinion" that isn't. Or we'd have to have a large disclaimer attached saying something like "While this article is useful information, nothing herein should be taken to be the official policy of The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum nor as the opinion of The Cauldron, its administration, staff, and/or affiliates."

Quote
For me personally, I am new with SJ in general. I take the initiative to learn from others' experiences for my own personal accountability and my own well-being.

The Cauldron is not a Social Justice forum. It is a forum devoted to the debate and discussion of religion and magic. While Social Justice discussions happen here, they are not and never will be the priority that they would be at a forum devoted to Social Justice. If you are looking for info on Social Justice, you'd get more info on a good forum devoted to the discussion of Social Justice than you will here. (Just like if you are interested in Golf, you would get more info on a forum devoted to Golf than you would by discussing it in our Sports area.)
Randall
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Neteruhemta RaShuGeb

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2014, 09:06:25 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;157896
This is possible, but problematic because some has to write each of those pages. And for something like this where people reading it are likely to take what is written as some type of "official policy" for TC, that person either has to be a staff member or at least willing to rewrite parts of it that might confuse people into thinking something is "official TC opinion" that isn't. Or we'd have to have a large disclaimer attached saying something like "While this article is useful information, nothing herein should be taken to be the official policy of The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum nor as the opinion of The Cauldron, its administration, staff, and/or affiliates."


That makes sense. It was just an idea I threw out there. I can see how it would get in to blurred areas of "official" versus "non-official", and like you said, it's not meant to be a Social Justice forum. I'm just thinking there's gotta be an easier way to address things than 20+ pages of SJ in regular threads.

Quote from: RandallS;157896
The Cauldron is not a Social Justice forum. It is a forum devoted to the debate and discussion of religion and magic. While Social Justice discussions happen here, they are not and never will be the priority that they would be at a forum devoted to Social Justice. If you are looking for info on Social Justice, you'd get more info on a good forum devoted to the discussion of Social Justice than you will here. (Just like if you are interested in Golf, you would get more info on a forum devoted to Golf than you would by discussing it in our Sports area.)


I know the Cauldron is not a Social Justice forum and I'm not looking for information on the subject on this forum. I'm here for the topics and the conversations regarding religious/spiritual paths. I should have probably clarified that my experience in talking to others in social conversations is how I learn about SJ, and not the topics in the forum (words elude me at times).

dragonfaerie

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #126 on: September 03, 2014, 09:51:18 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;157238
Comments on the above and additional ideas for plans/goals are welcome.

 
I've read the whole thread, but will just comment from the first post since my comments are pretty general.

So, I'm back. I think it's just going to be my habit to post regularly for a bit and then go walkabout. I'm trying to fix that, but first I need to get a more comfortable computer desk where I can put my feet up and/or fix the wifi in my house.

Anyway... I've been a threadstarter before. It's not that easy to come up with topics that folks will want to post to. I've often put up things I think are awesome, and then like two people post. It's a bit disheartening, but I can't predict what other folks are going to want to talk about.

I will say that I've seen a general fall-off of conversation everywhere online except Facebook, where conversations generally consist of liking a snarky graphical meme. The email lists of my Star Trek organization are dead. No one posts on Live Journal anymore. Etc, etc.

I can try to start more threads. I like to contribute, when I'm here. I like being here. I just get... well, I work on computers all day at work, so sometimes the last thing I want to do is look at another computer.

I don't really have any concrete suggestions beyond that. I can say that I don't particularly enjoy the newbie boards, if only because we end up discussing the same topics daily. How many times can I answer the same question the same way? That's an issue I find with Pagan newbies in general, and not just here.

Karen

Juniperberry

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #127 on: September 23, 2014, 04:32:46 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;157238
Fourth, we need to increase message board activity. It has dropped off quite a bit over the past year. Some of this is due to the above-mentioned personal issues, but work is still needed.

Comments on the above and additional ideas for plans/goals are welcome.


I might have an idea for this? At least in the sense that the message board activity could be more lucrative for the administration.

When I was a member of the Pagan Grove there was an adult forum called Shadows of the Grove. It was a safe place for  individuals to discuss mature workings and practices without having to censor themselves.

It was paid subscription only for a few reasons:

A) Having to pay for access through a credit card helped protect staff when it came to issues of minors viewing unsuitable content.

B) As mentioned, it helped fund board maintenance.

C)Subscription-only helped protect members posting personal content from harassment by others.


So. What do you think?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 04:33:19 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Sage

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #128 on: September 23, 2014, 05:06:56 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;159964


So. What do you think?

 
I am very much against there being a paid subscription section of TC. We already have a private Cauldron-members-only space as well as some private SIGs and such which are further restricted. There are also private donor boards that exist solely for those who donate money. If we want to talk about issues of privacy, then certainly we can talk about privacy. I've had access to the donor boards for a year and they are dead silent. That space you're talking about already exist and from the look of things aren't really being used.

You mention that charging would help keep minors away from "unsuitable" material. Do you feel that's a problem at TC? (Or rather, do you feel that's TC's problem?) If so, then what's going to stop a minor from taking their parents' credit card and paying for a subscription? Or using a debit card that may legally be made out in their name? (I got a debit card at 16. It was from my parents' bank account but it had my name on it and I could use it for what I wanted.)

Also, I don't see how subscribing necessarily protects users' content. Anyone can copy and paste a post to the internet at large - buying a subscription isn't going to stop that possibility. Even when I post to the private members' board, I am trusting that every single person who has ever signed up at TC isn't going to blast what I said all over social media or whatever.

Creating a subscription-only part of TC also sits really badly with me because it will inherently come down to a matter of access. Some people are not going to be able to afford it no matter how cheap it is. Because you're talking about terms of privacy (and potentially community building?), making privacy more or less accessible based on money feels really sketchy.

If we want to talk about adding more layers of privacy to parts of TC, then sure, let's look into that. Boards that are locked to members with a certain number of posts or those who have been around for X number of months/years, or simply limited to those who take the time to PM someone asking to be added. Then you'd have a more private (but of course, not totally private or safe either), self-selecting group of individuals who at least put forward a token effort of caring about TC's community by getting involved.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Juniperberry

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #129 on: September 23, 2014, 05:29:37 pm »
Quote from: Sage;159991
If we want to talk about issues of privacy, then certainly we can talk about privacy. I've had access to the donor boards for a year and they are dead silent. That space you're talking about already exist and from the look of things aren't really being used.

It's not about wanting private/restricted spaces on TC. I just thought that due to the graphic content of an adult board it would be the best option.

Quote
You mention that charging would help keep minors away from "unsuitable" material. Do you feel that's a problem at TC? (Or rather, do you feel that's TC's problem?) If so, then what's going to stop a minor from taking their parents' credit card and paying for a subscription? Or using a debit card that may legally be made out in their name? (I got a debit card at 16. It was from my parents' bank account but it had my name on it and I could use it for what I wanted.)

No, I don't think that it's a problem on TC. I felt that if there was a space that dealt with graphic mature content, that it's most decent to not expose it to a younger member base.  

While it's true that minors may steal a CC, or lie their way into a subscribed forum, having a safeguard in place meets the terms of reasonable responsibility.

Quote
Also, I don't see how subscribing necessarily protects users' content. Anyone can copy and paste a post to the internet at large - buying a subscription isn't going to stop that possibility. Even when I post to the private members' board, I am trusting that every single person who has ever signed up at TC isn't going to blast what I said all over social media or whatever.

It may not protect it 100% (nothing is ever really safe), but it's less likely that someone will pay hard-earned money to troll others. As an open forum, anyone really could c&p what goes on between you and your partner/s. As a private forum, it restricts that potential.

Quote
Creating a subscription-only part of TC also sits really badly with me because it will inherently come down to a matter of access. Some people are not going to be able to afford it no matter how cheap it is. Because you're talking about terms of privacy (and potentially community building?), making privacy more or less accessible based on money feels really sketchy.

It does limit access to the boards based on funds, but as you yourself said, that's already done here based on donations. What would make this any different?

Quote
If we want to talk about adding more layers of privacy to parts of TC, then sure, let's look into that. Boards that are locked to members with a certain number of posts or those who have been around for X number of months/years, or simply limited to those who take the time to PM someone asking to be added. Then you'd have a more private (but of course, not totally private or safe either), self-selecting group of individuals who at least put forward a token effort of caring about TC's community by getting involved.
'

An adult forum is really not about denying access. It's about providing access. Does it have to paid-subscription? No. That's an option.  Does it have to be private? No. That's simply another option.

ETA: If you absolutely disagree with this that's fine, but if those are your concerns then maybe an explanation would make you reconsider.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 05:32:02 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Darkhawk

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #130 on: September 23, 2014, 07:49:02 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;160012
It's not about wanting private/restricted spaces on TC. I just thought that due to the graphic content of an adult board it would be the best option.

No, I don't think that it's a problem on TC. I felt that if there was a space that dealt with graphic mature content, that it's most decent to not expose it to a younger member base.  


... okay, I know the internet is for porn, but is there an entire section of content that I'm managing to miss here?
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Juniperberry

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #131 on: September 23, 2014, 08:02:58 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;160045
... okay, I know the internet is for porn, but is there an entire section of content that I'm managing to miss here?

 
I'm thinking more along the lines of discussing fertility work, sex magic, partner rituals, ordeals, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about gratuitous eroticism and pornography, but an actual spiritual facet of pagan living.


There are blogs online that have a content warning for these types of matters, so the expectation of limited access is common.  The paid-subscription option is mainly for protection/privacy concerns, with an added bonus of funding maintenance of the site.

If this is something everyone is against, I won't be offended. I just would like to make sure my reasons for suggesting it are understood.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

random417

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #132 on: September 23, 2014, 08:46:43 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;160047
I'm thinking more along the lines of discussing fertility work, sex magic, partner rituals, ordeals, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about gratuitous eroticism and pornography, but an actual spiritual facet of pagan living.


There are blogs online that have a content warning for these types of matters, so the expectation of limited access is common.  The paid-subscription option is mainly for protection/privacy concerns, with an added bonus of funding maintenance of the site.

If this is something everyone is against, I won't be offended. I just would like to make sure my reasons for suggesting it are understood.
I may be wrong, I'm on my phone, so checking is harder than it should be, but I don't see anything in the rules prohibiting such discussions. I would dig a bit harder if I was going to post such content, but I don't see a reason I wouldn't post it in anything I have access to. I'm against that changing, mostly because this forum has a lot of thread drift.

A conversation that started out about reincarnation, for example, could turn to Will, then to Crowley, then to the 9th degree stuff.

Giving a special place for things like that makes it all the sudden "reasonable" that things of that nature be confined there.

I don't have a problem donating to things, (although a current lack of money) and I don't have a problem paying for things that are worth paying for, but I won't EVER pay for premium content on something that is free. It creates a  money based class system that I won't be a part of.

If conversations of that nature are ever allowed only in premium spaces, but not in the free ones, I'll go away.
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

Juniperberry

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #133 on: September 23, 2014, 09:16:08 pm »
Quote from: random417;160052




I don't have a problem donating to things, (although a current lack of money) and I don't have a problem paying for things that are worth paying for, but I won't EVER pay for premium content on something that is free. It creates a  money based class system that I won't be a part of.

If conversations of that nature are ever allowed only in premium spaces, but not in the free ones, I'll go away.


That's a fair point, and one I hadn't taken into consideration. It would eventually regulate topics of that nature to that space, and it wouldn't be a space everyone would be free to participate.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

random417

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Re: ADMIN: TC Plans for Next 12 Months (Comments/Ideas Welcome)
« Reply #134 on: September 23, 2014, 09:23:28 pm »
I could though see needing approval by the mods to access a space for that kind of stuff, because I can see how separating it might be a good idea. I'm just against making people pay for it.
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

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by Aisling

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