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Author Topic: On mixing or not mixing pantheons  (Read 10066 times)

zamotcr

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On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« on: August 27, 2014, 02:52:25 am »
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)

Sobekemiti

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 04:41:33 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)


Whether you mix pantheons or not really depends on what you're trying to do, and the gods involved. Some are much more compatible than others. I tend to approach it like people. Some people work really well together; others would rather eat nails than work together. Some are just there to cause trouble, while others will do the job, but probably not care too much. Some might even send you elsewhere, because they're not the right god for your purpose. It really depends on the gods in question.

I worship a mix of Egyptian, Greek, and Saxon gods on a regular basis, but I keep them all separate. For one, it's just easier that way, and it's what works best for me. It keeps the cultural context as intact as possible, which is important to me. I don't really see my gods as being part of a single pantheon, though. The only word that's ever really made any sense of my mix of gods is 'clan'. But it's really more of a descriptor, a way of conceptualising how these gods relate to me.

Then again, I'm approaching all this as a polytheist, of course, but if you're taking on a more eclectic neopaganish sort of approach, what you end up with might be different, particularly if you build your own structures and rituals that give their own context to what you're doing. Consider what part they might play in your practice, and how, then, would you honour them, like, are they a household god, a personal god, etc. Then perhaps consider some sort of regular schedule, if you want to keep them separate, so you can make sure you give each their due. If all else fails, ask the gods first, and go from there.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

Gilbride

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 07:53:52 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.


From at least 100 CE onward- and probably a lot earlier than that- ancient pagans freely mixed pantheons, seemingly with no concerns other than picking gods who could get the job done.

Just one example- there's a dedication from Britain around 208 CE invoking Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus and Caelestis Brigantia. Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus was a Syrian god (the Ba'al of Dolichene) identified with Jupiter. Caelestis was a North African goddess, originally named Tanit, syncretized with the Roman goddess Juno. Brigantia was a Celtic goddess.

Not mixing pantheons is arguably more "neopagan" than mixing them.

katbast

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 11:01:45 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)


Personally I work with deities from 2 different pantheons. I don't combine them. My shrine space is split between the two.....well technically my space is split into 3. Part of this is making space for both kemetic orthodoxy practices and ADF practices with flame keeping in between. I wanted to combine the two but it really didn't feel right to me. Divination also didn't show positive results on mixing either. However they aren't strictly separate either. When I do daily(ish) devotions I don't do one pantheon and then the other. I start on one side, add in Brigid, then move onto the other. I use the flame keeping part as a bridge between the two. Hopefully that made some sense.

As far as mixing as a whole goes, I think it depends on several factors. I you view the gods as aspects of one god then sure mix. Technically you are just talking to one god. If you have a polytheistic view where every god is separate, then I would be a bit more cautious about mixing. I dislike what I call the spice rack approach where individuals just grab whatever deities have the attributes they need without having a relationship or even just a thought about how well they might work together.

For a slightly more touchy feely angle, how do you and the gods you work with feel about mixing? What works for me won't necessarily work for you.

Voren

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 12:21:45 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)

 
I'm not sure how to describe what I do. I don't really make another pantheon, I just kind of keep each god/goddess in their separate ones, not only because it just feels easier that way but out of respect for them. I don't want to shove them into a pantheon if they don't want to be, so to speak. I don't know I guess that's what I do :eek:
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Voren

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 12:23:09 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;157217
From at least 100 CE onward- and probably a lot earlier than that- ancient pagans freely mixed pantheons, seemingly with no concerns other than picking gods who could get the job done.

Just one example- there's a dedication from Britain around 208 CE invoking Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus and Caelestis Brigantia. Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus was a Syrian god (the Ba'al of Dolichene) identified with Jupiter. Caelestis was a North African goddess, originally named Tanit, syncretized with the Roman goddess Juno. Brigantia was a Celtic goddess.

Not mixing pantheons is arguably more "neopagan" than mixing them.

 
I agree with this, I really don't see anything wrong with it to be honest; and really, if no one else (gods/goddesses) doesn't mind, then there's no problem with it, right?
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Faemon

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 01:18:11 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;157217
From at least 100 CE onward- and probably a lot earlier than that- ancient pagans freely mixed pantheons, seemingly with no concerns other than picking gods who could get the job done.

Just one example- there's a dedication from Britain around 208 CE invoking Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus and Caelestis Brigantia. Jupiter Eternal Dolichenus was a Syrian god (the Ba'al of Dolichene) identified with Jupiter. Caelestis was a North African goddess, originally named Tanit, syncretized with the Roman goddess Juno. Brigantia was a Celtic goddess.

Not mixing pantheons is arguably more "neopagan" than mixing them.

That's very fascinating.

Can that be done by neopagans without immense pushback, though? I mean, if I get UPG of this fiery, artsy trickster and waffle between identifying it as Loki and Apollo...and settle on "Lokapollo" wouldn't I get Heathens and Hellenists both going, "Oh gods! Never--Never. Say. That. Word. Again." "Apollo Lie-Smith? Loki Phanaeus?" "Stahp..."

It would probably be safer to go for a title or name meaning like "The Brightest Star" or "The Destroyer of Worlds" and repress the urge to follow one's personal gnosis into associating with any mythos, at least within a community, nowadays.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 01:19:20 pm by Faemon »
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random417

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 02:06:48 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;157258
That's very fascinating.

Can that be done by neopagans without immense pushback, though? I mean, if I get UPG of this fiery, artsy trickster and waffle between identifying it as Loki and Apollo...and settle on "Lokapollo" wouldn't I get Heathens and Hellenists both going, "Oh gods! Never--Never. Say. That. Word. Again." "Apollo Lie-Smith? Loki Phanaeus?" "Stahp..."
Funny though, I don't think how someone works with or identifies their own deities is something that one should care about someone else's opinion on. If it's an honest blending, don't you owe it to yourself and the hybrid deity to be honest about it? Not necessarily shout it from the rooftops, buy your practice should be just that... yours.

Of course, as a Hermetic magician, I'm a super soft polytheist, and as a Thelemite (even nominally), identifying the personal pantheon is MY first step in discovering my True Will. I guess everyone has to determine how much other people play a role, but to me, it's not anyone else's place.
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

random417

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 02:07:41 pm »
Quote from: random417;157266
Funny though, I don't think how someone works with or identifies their own deities is something that one should care about someone else's opinion on. If it's an honest blending, don't you owe it to yourself and the hybrid deity to be honest about it? Not necessarily shout it from the rooftops, buy your practice should be just that... yours.

Of course, as a Hermetic magician, I'm a super soft polytheist, and as a Thelemite (even nominally), identifying the personal pantheon is MY first step in discovering my True Will. I guess everyone has to determine how much other people play a role, but to me, it's not anyone else's place.
Point of that being... there may be push back, but should we care?
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

random417

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 02:12:54 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)
To address the original question. I work with gods from many different pantheons, but I only developed relationships with one for each "domain". I'm not sure what I'd do if it ever came up, but that means I've never had the issue of whether or not to mix them. I'd be likely to do some divination work to ask the gods in question what they think about each other.
"Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect."

AL 1:42-44

Aiwelin

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 12:44:20 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)


I agree with others who have said mixing may actually be more 'authentic' than not :P. Personally, I recently put aside honoring some Celtic deities because (for me) it began to become too complicated to honor Celtic deities, Germanic deities, ancestors and nature spirits; and also I've had some recent UPG that's asked me to focus on some specific work for a few Germanic deities.  But honestly, it still feels like mixing to me!  Many of my ancestors have had very different cultures, so honoring them gets all jumbled anyway; and the spirits of the land here on the Great Plains of America are extremely different than those in say Iceland - but I still honor Gods who were honored in Iceland.

Let the deities guide you - if you feel different ones are asking to be separated or pushed together, than listen!  But honestly, don't feel like you have to listen to what some of the more dogmatic of polytheists are saying about having to keep pantheons separate.  I've known a lot of mixers in my time, and none of them were ever struck by lightning :P
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zamotcr

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 03:33:31 pm »
Quote from: Aiwelin;157354
..

 
Thanks everyone for the inputs.

The things is, after a long journey I found that I don't fit any single culture or tradition exclusively. I can happily be a member of a Druid organization and also a Buddhist practitioner, but I can't choose just one, I can't limit myself.

The same have happened with pantheons, I have tried with several pagan religions like Asatru, Druidism, Wicca, some Asian religions, and while I got good god friends, I can't deny or ignore my friendship with other gods of other cultures I've been trying to fit. So I developed a good friendship with gods of different cultures and pantheons.

The beliefs well, I have my own, drawn from various cultures and beliefs systems. My worldview is mine.

What I don't know is how to approach gods. Keeping separate altars seems impossible. I approach them in their own way and culture, trying not to mix, unless they don't have problem. So im like building my own system. Somethings feels weird, following my own and not fitting existing ones, for some Im fake.

BlindBardRLB

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 12:40:13 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

I told in another thread, I'm not devout to a single pantheon nor culture, I can't stick to just one. I don't have a main culture neither, so I think I'm building on my own.

If you do work with multiple gods from different pantheons, how do you do it? You keep each pantheon or god separate from each other culture or you mix all yours gods into a "single pantheon"?

Any advices also, please :)

 
I think it depends on the deities in question really. Do the pantheons or at least the cultures where they were historically worshiped have any historical interactions? Do the deities in question seem to like or dislike each other? Do you have a main deity? What do they think about being honored and worshipped amongst deities from other tribes?

So many things to take into consideration when trying to figure this out. I think it will be most helpful if you have at least a main deity or a couple of main deities to go from. You can ask them to see wherever or not They are okay with you honoring them together with other deities from other tribes.

I worship the Tuatha de Danann along with the Aesir and Vanir with Brigid being my main deity (in general really, first and formost in my life) from the Gaelic side and Thor from the Norse side. I also worship Angus Mac Og, Oghma, An Dagda, Tyr, Ullr, etc….

I’m learning the best way to honor both groups ofGods together and while it’s slow going, it’s a successful work in progress.

Rob

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 06:34:23 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons.

How does it work for you? Is this true?

It depends on context, most of that being one's actual approach. If you're eclectic or highly syncretic, then I see no reason to be against it if one desires to mix or blend pantheons. I think that the usual opposition comes from those of a reconstructionist mindset, and that opposition derives from the very overtly and carefully pious approach recons tend to have towards the gods. Any suggestion of not giving the gods their proper respect or due is looked on with distaste. And the sort of language used in eclectic neopagan circles, particularly in segments influence by Wiccan practice, can imply that the practitioner is using or commanding the gods. Though this may largely be a language problem, not an intentions problem. In any case, reconstructionists and others in that camp then tend to have a distaste towards eclecticism in general, and get a little uncomfortable regarding other eclectic practices--such as blending pantheons.

I personally do not have much of an issue with it. I'm mostly a recon, now, but I started out as a Wiccan, so I do understand the value and draw of worshipping gods without boundaries as to whom one may venerate. It allows for an expression of faith that transcends cultural and human-made lines. Which isn't entirely unprecedented in history; the Greeks did it often enough, and the Romans were masters of syncretism. As long as its done with the proper respect towards the gods, I have no reason to raise complaints. Mindfulness is the key, but...isn't it always?

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Re: On mixing or not mixing pantheons
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 09:53:37 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;157207
I often hear the we shouldn't mix gods from different pantheons

 
An observation of mine is if one works with a specific deity that the energy manifests in both themselves and their life (for good and bad, and really what determines if it's good or bad is how the person reacts to it). One person I'm thinking of honored Diana, Ceridwen, Mielikki, and Freya as a whole and also would stick with one for awhile at certain times (and she'd consciously choose which aspect she'd want to manifest, though she did see them as real who called her at the same time) and even when she switched her focus to another goddess the old vibes would remain and occasionally resurface. It all shaped her mind and soul, if that makes sense, and she had a shrine that honored all at the same time.

I can think of another who also called on Mielikki (and sometimes Tapio) as well as Manannan mac Lir (when by the Pacific) and that was effective for her, there were sometimes even "special effects" at her circles (just one example, she closed a circle she led us on which included a merry part to the deities she'd called and the low tide slowly came forward and stopped just past the circle we'd just exited before retreating back and becoming normal).

What has really been odd to me (because I don't see why this happens) is that I tend to get along very well with those who honor both Loki & Thor and also Discordians, but I've met more than one that instead honor and invoke both Loki & Eris on a regular basis and for some reason we can't stand each other and both our lives seem to be plagued with bad luck when we interact. I have no idea why this is but I now avoid anyone who mixes those two...I don't think anything bad about them for doing that, just for some reason the vibes they create for themselves clash with mine.
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