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Author Topic: Changing perceptions of Brighid  (Read 5325 times)

Breeze

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Changing perceptions of Brighid
« on: August 20, 2014, 07:56:08 pm »
This is probably about to get extremely confusing and should, in all honesty, be split into about three different threads; I just couldn’t figure out how to do it and retain the context.

How have your understanding and/or relationship with Brighid changed over time?  If there has been a change, how drastic has it been and how long did it take for the changes to occur?

When I first started getting to know Brighid, I’m kind of ashamed to admit, I pigeonholed the shit out of Her.  “Goddess of Poetry, Healing, Smithcraft, Fire- that’s it.”  When I first started getting to know Her and work with Her I guess I needed something simple, with the security of non-dynamism due to the state of affairs in my life.  I feel like She kind of grinned and endured it because She knew I needed help and that my heart was in the right place.

Over the past 5-6 months my practice has been turned on its head and changed, a LOT.  Due to previously mentioned attempts at putting Brighid in this nice and tidy box, I started to feel like She and I couldn’t work together much and took things back up with Hekate and just gave Brighid a glancing nod occasionally :ashamed:.  It’s embarrassing to admit that, but it’s the truth.  I even missed a couple of my Cill shifts, which makes me feel even worse.

So, the other night my shift comes around and I had the overwhelming sense of, “LIGHT THE CANDLE.  MEDITATE.  NOW!”  I followed through and had a huge wave of calm wash over me that actually prompted a few tears because of how much I’d missed it, as well as the aforementioned guilt.  Things have been steadily deteriorating in all aspects of my life as they have been for a couple years now, but simply following through with my shift put me back into a very calm and secure space.  So much so, that I kept the flame for a few days straight.

I kept getting the need to sit down and compare Hekate and Brighid.  I don’t know why, it seemed kind of apples and oranges to me.  So, I started perusing around TC and google to see what I could find.  I came across a blog that made quite a few (eyebrow-raising) assumptions that basically said, “I can’t prove it, but Brighid and Hekate are the same goddess; here are a few ‘facts’ to kinda prove it.”  The history is poor and far-fetched at best, so I didn’t pay it much mind.  But for some reason I kept coming back to the same webpage with the same crappy history and conclusions.  I gave it a few days and still couldn’t figure out ‘why this page’ and ‘what am I supposed to do with this’, so I asked Brighid.  All I got is a sense of, “you’re not looking at it right.”

I didn’t really pay much more attention to the webpage because Hekate and Brighid are different, very different; but I still kept coming back to it trying to figure out what She wanted me to see.  I finally asked Her again, “I get the sense that this is important in some way, but how and why?”  And, *crickets*.

Last night I was reading through the Clann Bhride Book of Hours again and came across the section on Dark Brighid, which then reminded me of the thread I started over here.  I felt like I was getting there, but still didn’t quite understand what She was wanted me to see.  So, I told Her again that it didn’t make sense and could She please explain it.  She finally answered, “You think our work together is over because your way is now ‘darker’ and different, and because I am too ‘bright’.  Why?”  So I explained how I’d come to understand Her and how Hekate is much more aligned to the way my practices are evolving and that I just didn’t see any way to reconcile either Her (Brighid’s) or my natures so that they were in alignment.  I got a picture in my head of her giving me a “that’s cute” kind of smirk and then she promptly dropped the proverbial 2x4 and instead smacked me over the head with the entire tree.  The things I was trying to articulate in my Dark Brighid thread and the way that my practices had evolved gelled at once and everything made perfect sense in an instant.  It was like everything that I had wondered about for 6 months suddenly became whole.  Brighid and Hekate are NOT the same, but the traits belonging to Hekate that I thought Brighid did not have, were just not in my previously mentioned pigeonholed understanding of Her.  So now, I’m kind of left with a crap load of UPG (like seriously enough to make an entire Path with: animal symbolism, tools, rituals, different aspects of Brighid, etc.).

So the questions are now threefold:  
•   Is all of this (collective) UPG me just trying to shoehorn her into my new practices? (I don’t think it is, but second opinions are good for you)
•   Has something similar ever happened to you? (DRASTIC changes in your perceptions/understandings of any deity, but particularly Brighid)
•   How do I wade through all of this UPG to figure out if it is indeed legit stuff, or my own trappings/imaginings?

I doubt I’ve made much sense here, but I’m willing to clarify, explain, and elaborate on any of it.  So help me out, what do you make of all of this?

Sage

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2014, 08:42:14 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156696
How have your understanding and/or relationship with Brighid changed over time?  If there has been a change, how drastic has it been and how long did it take for the changes to occur?


I've been thinking of writing up a post about this for awhile, actually. I originally came to Brighid via the Lady of the Stars thing that happened in November 2010. Nearly four years later I am still unable to fully parse what I experienced with LotS - partially because It Happened and then It Had Happened And Was Happening No Longer (as mystical experiences sometimes do). At this point I don't think The/Our Lady of the Stars was Brighid, in as much as I can possibly define that Lady who seems intent on defying attempts to stick to any identity that mortals can comprehend, but She did lead me to Brighid and Brighid is sometimes for me the Lady of the Stars. The liminality of divine identities, right?

I was in ADF when I first started flamekeeping for Brighid, and in a few rituals She served in the Bard role (an optional role for ADF's Core Order of Ritual given to a specific Hearth Culture's creative, crafty, or inspirational deities.) I'm really awful at figure out a timeframe for any of this, but sometime after drifting away from ADF I became involved with the fledgling project that would become Clann Bhride. That itself was a journey for me because I don't sense energetic/spiritual/woo things most of the time. I don't feel like I was necessarily called or chosen by Brighid; to the contrary, I feel like I chose Her. And if I've been rejected, I never got the memo. ;)

My relationship with Brighid has had its ups and downs. Until Clann Bhride started, several months through the planning stages, I had serious questions about my own beliefs and devotions, as I'd had throughout my entire Pagan "career." Like was I really the right person for this role I was undertaking? Did I "really believe" in Brighid and what did that mean? What about the fact I'm skeptical and sometimes pessimistic and don't feel much? What about xyz?

I still have those doubts but how I frame my relationship with Brighid and my own understanding of how religion can work has shifted since the launch of CB. (The fact it coincided almost to the day of the dissolution of my 2.5-year relationship with my ex-fiancee is probably not a coincidence. A lot of things have opened up and shifted in 2014.) My faith can be a devotional act, but... so can self-care for anxiety and depression! So can writing blog posts about CB theology and praxis! So can responding to threads on TC! Right now, I'm being devotional and letting belief sort itself out - and for once I feel like I can be satisfied where I am.

(Big secret: where I am is where Brighid's always been.)

Quote
When I first started getting to know Brighid, I’m kind of ashamed to admit, I pigeonholed the shit out of Her. [...]  I feel like She kind of grinned and endured it because She knew I needed help and that my heart was in the right place.


You know for what it's worth, I don't think this is an entirely uncommon experience in divine/human relationships. Our abilities and needs shift all the time if only for the fact we're all getting older and having new life experiences.

Quote
I even missed a couple of my Cill shifts, which makes me feel even worse.


Also for what it's worth: I've missed some Cill shifts too. I tend to think that Brighid picks up the slack. (And sometimes I find that my day has been inexplicably Brighid-y and I remember - oof, Brighid brought the Cill shift to me this time!)

Quote
I kept getting the need to sit down and compare Hekate and Brighid.


You know it's funny you should mention it but I can see a possible connection - not full on identification, but definitely a connection. Goddesses related in some way to the number three who also use fiery imagery (whether it's a torch or a forge). I've never worked with Hekate specifically but my instinct says that Her Work wouldn't necessarily be opposed to Brighid's Work.

Quote
She finally answered, “You think our work together is over because your way is now ‘darker’ and different, and because I am too ‘bright’.  Why?”  So I explained how I’d come to understand Her and how Hekate is much more aligned to the way my practices are evolving and that I just didn’t see any way to reconcile either Her (Brighid’s) or my natures so that they were in alignment.


This is something else I've been mulling over for a good long while and haven't always had the ability to put into words. Brighid is a very "bright" goddess in a lot of ways, but I think there's also the tendency - over all communities that work with or worship Her - to see "bright" as somehow opposite to aspects of life like grief, war, depression, sickness, or death. I definitely fall into that thinking trap more often than I should.

Brighid is the inventor of keening after the death of Her son(s). As a healer She deals with humanity's afflictions and ills. As Brig Ambue She tackles the injustice of society and makes sure there's a place for even the cowless ones. Brighid's been my patron of depression and mental illness since I met Her. And that's not even bringing in Brid of the Horses/Dark Brighid, which I have not personally dealt with but find absolutely fascinating on dozens of levels.

Quote
The things I was trying to articulate in my Dark Brighid thread and the way that my practices had evolved gelled at once and everything made perfect sense in an instant.  It was like everything that I had wondered about for 6 months suddenly became whole.


Spiritual progress: just because you sweat for it doesn't always mean you get why until half a year later. :)

Quote
So now, I’m kind of left with a crap load of UPG (like seriously enough to make an entire Path with: animal symbolism, tools, rituals, different aspects of Brighid, etc.).


Just as a note, I would love to see what your UPG looks like.

Quote
So the questions are now threefold:  
•   Is all of this (collective) UPG me just trying to shoehorn her into my new practices? (I don’t think it is, but second opinions are good for you)


I dunno, is it?

I can't pop into your head and see what you're "really" doing "for reals." But I can ask: does it matter to you if it is? Does it matter to Brighid? Does this feel like it's working for you? If anything it sounds like you're expanding your understanding of Brighid, which is the opposite of shoehorning.

Quote

•   How do I wade through all of this UPG to figure out if it is indeed legit stuff, or my own trappings/imaginings?

 
And that is the million dollar question.

Well, similar questions above are still pertinent: does it matter if these are "just" your imaginings? What if this is how Brighid is appearing to you or how your mind is processing Her stuff?
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Aster Breo

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2014, 08:50:16 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156696
So the questions are now threefold:  
•Is all of this (collective) UPG me just trying to shoehorn her into my new practices? (I don’t think it is, but second opinions are good for you)
•Has something similar ever happened to you? (DRASTIC changes in your perceptions/understandings of any deity, but particularly Brighid)
•How do I wade through all of this UPG to figure out if it is indeed legit stuff, or my own trappings/imaginings?

I doubt I’ve made much sense here, but I’m willing to clarify, explain, and elaborate on any of it.  So help me out, what do you make of all of this?

Breeze, I want SO much to reply to you in detail right now. But I physically can't -- stupid head! :-(  I actually wasn't going to even log on tonight because it hurts to read the screen, but something kept poking me to just glance through the threads. I think it must have been this one.

So, for now, I have to leave it at the short answers of:

Yes, Brighid is surprisingly multifaceted. Until you stop and think about how many different interests, likes, hobbies, etc., the average person has, and then wonder why you ever thought gods would be so limited in their own interests, likes, and hobbies.  ;-)

Yes, I've had my perception of Brighid totally overhauled. It's disorienting, but ultimately a good thing.

Yes, an influx of new UPG is confusing and unsettling. *But there's no hurry to work through it all.* Give yourself time. And we're here to help with it, too. You will get through this.

I'm sorry I can't write more just now. I really am. I'll try to come back to this thread when my head isn't pounding so hard. It might be a while...

(If you want, I'm also happy to talk via email, if there's stuff you'd rather not post publicly:  asterbreo@gmail.com)

Hang in there. This is a really exciting thing for you!
~ Aster
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014, 05:22:49 pm »
Quote from: Sage;156703
I've been thinking of writing up a post about this for awhile, actually. [...]  I don't feel like I was necessarily called or chosen by Brighid; to the contrary, I feel like I chose Her. And if I've been rejected, I never got the memo. ;)


All of this helps quite a bit.  I've worked with a lot of different deities, but Brighid seems much more fluid in the ways that I understand Her.  Like with Hekate, I kinda just knew what She was about and there wasn't as much noticeable change in my perceptions, like my understanding was more stagnant/less dynamic in terms of it evolving.  Same with all of the other deities I've worked with.  Brighid is the first one that I've felt like I now have a more relatable relationship with similar to the human experience (i.e. meeting someone and progressing and getting to know them more and more over time).  I have no idea if it's the fact that I'm crap with all forms of Celtic mythology (as opposed to like the Greek myths, which I'm much more versed in), and so everything I'm learning is UPG until/unless I can find corroborative evidence in Her mythology.  Like for you, first She was the LotS, and then your perceptions/understanding/relationship with Her shifted in a substantial way.  That helps quite a bit in terms of reassuring me that this is a good thing.

Quote from: Sage;156703
My relationship with Brighid has had its ups and downs. Until Clann Bhride started, several months through the planning stages, I had serious questions about my own beliefs and devotions, as I'd had throughout my entire Pagan "career." Like was I really the right person for this role I was undertaking? Did I "really believe" in Brighid and what did that mean? What about the fact I'm skeptical and sometimes pessimistic and don't feel much? What about xyz?


That part I bolded there struck a chord.  That's actually something I thought about quite a bit on my last shift.  It felt like I was being asked, "Are you a Flamekeeper or a Keybearer?"  I thought of it in terms of a 'career', as in: which job am I most suited for, which job do my skills work better for, etc.  I know that your usage of that word was less literal, but it still stood out enough for me.  I've been wrestling with the thoughts and stuff you're talking about here.  Polytheism in a literal sense just does not work for me.  I've tried and tried and I just can't.  Henotheism is where I'd plop myself down.  I *know* there are numerous deities, but for me to get things rolling and actually get stuff done, I have to focus on one deity.

Quote from: Sage;156703
I still have those doubts but how I frame my relationship with Brighid and my own understanding of how religion can work has shifted since the launch of CB. (The fact it coincided almost to the day of the dissolution of my 2.5-year relationship with my ex-fiancee is probably not a coincidence. A lot of things have opened up and shifted in 2014.) My faith can be a devotional act, but... so can self-care for anxiety and depression! So can writing blog posts about CB theology and praxis! So can responding to threads on TC! Right now, I'm being devotional and letting belief sort itself out - and for once I feel like I can be satisfied where I am.

(Big secret: where I am is where Brighid's always been.)


ALL OF THIS.  Life is crap at the moment, and has been for 2 years.  In the two years though, I've had more spiritual experiences than I ever have before.  A lot of what you're talking about in terms of devotional acts and faith strike a chord too.  That's one of the huge things Brighid did teach me not long after joining the Cill- devotion =/= over-the-top, Super Witch, ritual-all-the-time.  It can be the little things too, and I've noticed they often mean more.

Quote from: Sage;156703
You know for what it's worth, I don't think this is an entirely uncommon experience in divine/human relationships. Our abilities and needs shift all the time if only for the fact we're all getting older and having new life experiences.

Also for what it's worth: I've missed some Cill shifts too. I tend to think that Brighid picks up the slack. (And sometimes I find that my day has been inexplicably Brighid-y and I remember - oof, Brighid brought the Cill shift to me this time!)


I've seen it happen so many times before and it still irks me because I thought I knew better.  In a way I think it helps more, because it makes the fleshing out process of understanding take longer, which then gives the opportunity for actual growth and understanding, rather than in a superficial sense.  Or something.  Words are there but they're not coming out right I don't think, but I get what you are saying and I agree.  As for the Cill shifts, I've definitely had days that were Brighid-y even when I was focused more on Hekate, so I guess She's brought them to me before too.  It helps to assuage that guilt a little bit to remember that even if She wasn't on my mind, She was in my heart (that sounds stupid, but it works).

Quote from: Sage;156703
You know it's funny you should mention it but I can see a possible connection - not full on identification, but definitely a connection. Goddesses related in some way to the number three who also use fiery imagery (whether it's a torch or a forge). I've never worked with Hekate specifically but my instinct says that Her Work wouldn't necessarily be opposed to Brighid's Work.


When I felt like I needed to compare Them, I came up with quite a few, which I still keep pondering.  I'm right there with you on the whole 'not the same, but definitely connected', and also that Their work can be complimentary.

Quote from: Sage;156703
This is something else I've been mulling over for a good long while and haven't always had the ability to put into words. Brighid is a very "bright" goddess in a lot of ways, but I think there's also the tendency - over all communities that work with or worship Her - to see "bright" as somehow opposite to aspects of life like grief, war, depression, sickness, or death. I definitely fall into that thinking trap more often than I should.


I fell into that trap HARD.  Brighid is a lot more fluid than I initially gave Her credit for and some of what you're talking about lines up with some of the stuff I got from Her the other day.  I'll throw the UPG-ish stuff in its own reply.

Quote from: Sage;156703
Brighid is the inventor of keening after the death of Her son(s). As a healer She deals with humanity's afflictions and ills. As Brig Ambue She tackles the injustice of society and makes sure there's a place for even the cowless ones. Brighid's been my patron of depression and mental illness since I met Her. And that's not even bringing in Brid of the Horses/Dark Brighid, which I have not personally dealt with but find absolutely fascinating on dozens of levels.


Ditto here, I'll expand in its own post so that this one doesn't get longer than it is.

Quote from: Sage;156703
I dunno, is it?

I can't pop into your head and see what you're "really" doing "for reals." But I can ask: does it matter to you if it is? Does it matter to Brighid? Does this feel like it's working for you? If anything it sounds like you're expanding your understanding of Brighid, which is the opposite of shoehorning.

And that is the million dollar question.

Well, similar questions above are still pertinent: does it matter if these are "just" your imaginings? What if this is how Brighid is appearing to you or how your mind is processing Her stuff?


At first I kept telling myself that this is not the Brighid I know.  But that's exactly it.  My understanding was VERY limited.  I've tried finding some of the stuff in Her mythology and some of it is kinda there, some of it is outright not and wouldn't be.  As far as is it working for me?  A resounding 'yes'.  It helps me to either connect with Her better in some cases, or understand a part of Her for others.  It's kind of like having a trunk that I know what's inside and I need to access it, but finally having the key to undo the lock (note: analogies are not my forte lol).  But I guess that's all that matters, right?  It's not contradicting Her, it's helping me to understand Her and connect with Her.


*Sorry this post is so long, my initial one was to begin with and just about everything you said clicked or made sense in some way, so I didn't feel right snipping too much of your replies.

Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2014, 05:32:21 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;156705
Breeze, I want SO much to reply to you in detail right now. But I physically can't -- stupid head! :-(  I actually wasn't going to even log on tonight because it hurts to read the screen, but something kept poking me to just glance through the threads. I think it must have been this one.

So, for now, I have to leave it at the short answers of:

Yes, Brighid is surprisingly multifaceted. Until you stop and think about how many different interests, likes, hobbies, etc., the average person has, and then wonder why you ever thought gods would be so limited in their own interests, likes, and hobbies.  ;-)

Yes, I've had my perception of Brighid totally overhauled. It's disorienting, but ultimately a good thing.

Yes, an influx of new UPG is confusing and unsettling. *But there's no hurry to work through it all.* Give yourself time. And we're here to help with it, too. You will get through this.

I'm sorry I can't write more just now. I really am. I'll try to come back to this thread when my head isn't pounding so hard. It might be a while...

(If you want, I'm also happy to talk via email, if there's stuff you'd rather not post publicly:  asterbreo@gmail.com)

Hang in there. This is a really exciting thing for you!
~ Aster


No problem, Aster.  This thread and me and all of my questions and the stuff floating around in my head will definitely still be here when you feel better.

Like I mentioned in my reply to Sage, I feel so much better about all of this happening after I read both of your replies.  This all is kind of new and slightly scary territory, but it is a good thing.  I almost didn't post this thread because I was honestly afraid that I was kind of straying off the path and that it was just me trying to make Her fit.  The fact that you weren't going to log on but got pinged to and think this thread might be a part of it helps me to appreciate that maybe She nudged you to nudge me to pay attention and not dismiss all of this, if that made sense lol.

Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2014, 06:39:23 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156874
*wields giant pair of scissors*


Ok, as for all of the UPG and all of the not-really-UPG-but-kinda-stretching-the-information-that-is-available-so-as-to-connect/understand-better: it's still somewhat disorienting and not quite put together because I'm still working it out and things.

Brighid as Duality- Light Brighid, Dark Brighid

I think one of the core things, that I've noticed so far, is that most of this UPG deals with the duality of Brighid and hinges upon that one bit about Her having a beautiful half of Her face and an "ugly" side of Her face.  

It is represented in the two animal symbols I list further down and adds a layer of duality to EVERY aspect of Brighid, somewhat like how Tarot cards have reversals- each meaning is on one end of the spectrum, and there is an equal and opposite meaning as well.

The two halves represent the celestial (related to the Poetess, LotS kinda, maybe? IDK yet) and underworld (Smith, Brighid of the Horses kinda, maybe?) parts of Her respectively.  They come together and form Her as a whole in Her more Earhty aspect (Healer makes the most sense to me, but I haven't sussed that bit out yet).  Every other aspect of Brighid (Brig Ambue, Brig Briugu, Brig Brethach, etc) all fall under one of these 3 aspects of Brighid (notice that even with an emphasis on duality and with all of the rest added, it still retains the triune core).

Seasonally, this duality (or triplicity, IDK which to describe it as) represents all of the 4 seasons.  The Earth (as Brighid's mantle) reflects the face She wears at that time.  In the Winter, when Brighid is wearing Her "ugly" face, the mantle is threadbare (no leaves, flowers, etc).  At the same time though, in the opposite hemisphere, She is still portraying Her beautiful face and Her mantle (Earth) reflects that (leaves, flowers, etc).  In the spring and autumn the transition begins, but one face holds sway (beautiful and "ugly" respectively).  

Each aspect of Brighid also gets a bit of duality to it too.  For example, the Helaer aspect would deal with herbs.  In Brighid's Light/Beautiful/Bright form, herbs that heal would be used, and magically speaking, herbs that give beneficent influence/blessings would be used.  In Brighid's Dark/"Ugly" form, herbs that are poisons, used to harm and used for cursing would be used.  I think the poisons that are also used medicinally would be appropriate symbols for the whole of Brighid, but IDK if that's taking the symbolism too far.

Animal symbolism

1) The peacock.  This one I know is absolutely 100% UPG.  It goes part and parcel with number 2, so they have to be considered together because it's a huge-overarching-duality thingie.  It represents the "ugly"/Dark side of Brighid.  The tail feathers have been seen as symbols of the night sky and stars by the Greeks I know for sure, and I believe a couple other cultures too.  The peacock is the darker half of number 2 and would symbolize  water/the lunar side of Brighid/the dark stars/night/autumn and winter/etc.

2) The phoenix.  I know this one is all UPG too.  Most portrayals of phoenixes have them looking like peacocks, but instead of dark, cool colors, they are bright, warm, and fiery.  The phoenix represents the beautiful/Bright side of Brighid.  It symbolizes fire/the solar side of Brighid/the bright star (Sun)/daylight/spring and summer/etc.

3) The snake.  This one is in the (Scottish, I think?) lore a little bit.  I don't really know if this one is a working symbol, or if it simply pertains to how She'd like me to celebrate Imbolc.  I did find this blog post by Sarah Anne Lawless that kinda ties in to the image/ritual/stuff I got.  She also wrote this one too though that makes me think it could be a somewhat Underworldy/Chtonic/Dark Brighid symbol too.  My practice has started to incorporate working with local land spirits more.  I think I've mentioned somewhere here before that I really jive with the symbolism of Brighid's mantle expanding/covering the earth, so that seems to give me an animized symbol to work with the essence of it rather than just Brighid's cloak covers the earth/is nature (i.e it's alive).

Stars

I think this UPG is designed specifically for me and takes some of the stellar aspects that others touch on, but makes it more important to me so that I can relate to some of the attributes Brighid already carries.

I despise daylight and the Sun, I'm much more of a night time person.  Living only ever in the desert or the humidly sticky southeast all of my life has given me a special disdain for any sort of heat (and by association daylight).  It's prevented me from working with a lot of deites that carry solar attributes or aspects because for the longest time it was, "fuck the sun. srsly".  It was actually something that kept me from ever looking more in to Brighid too.

But, the Sun is a star.  I like stars, I associate them with the night, cooler (more comfortable/bearable) weather, the night.  So rather than solar, in my UPG-stuff, Brighid is stellar.  Brighid's crosses remind me of stars, that whole peacock thing, the LotS stuff I kinda looked in to but never really got work for me becomes a means of connecting with the brighter half of Brighid.  I realize that most of my thoughts for this little bit are completely illogical, but it was seriously that big of a hurdle for me.

So, with all of that, stars are a HUGELY important symbol of Brighid for me now because they represent both sides of Brighid: the Bright Side/Star (sun, daylight), and the Dark Side/Star (moon, because it's reflected sunlight which makes it reflected starlight; night).

So that's the finer bits I've kinda got my head somewhat wrapped around.  Poke, prod, question, and all of that good stuff.  Feedback can help me refine it and figure it out more ;)

Aster Breo

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 08:50:32 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156878
Feedback can help me refine it and figure it out more ;)

(Unfortunately, I'm still migraining pretty hard -- today has actually been worse than yesterday, and I already know tomorrow will be even worse -- so this is another limited reply. I'm really sorry about that!  I have so many thinks about what you've said here, but I'm going to have to just touch on the ones I see as biggest right now.)

Your peacock, phoenix, and star symbols also resonate with me and have for some time, although I don't remember seeing either of those birds in other people's writing. (Which doesn't mean it's not out there. Just that I don't remember it. Because stupid brain.)  

For me, the peacock symbolism is more about the eye imagery, which is connected to Sulis (there's archeological evidence for that) and therefore -- for me -- to Brighid.  The colors of the (typical male) peacock evoke both water and the night sky for me.

The phoenix resonates for me because of the flames, of course, but also because of the regeneration aspect.

The stars actually have several layers of meaning to me, including the link between stars and our sun. And the Lady of the Stars thing.  Which, to me, includes an important element of what you're referring to as "Dark Brighid" -- assuming I understand what you mean by "Dark Brighid", of course.

Snakes, OTOH, fit less well for me, personally. Intellectually, I understand the ideas behind it. And I don't have anything against snakes. They just don't really click for me as a Brighid symbol. IIRC, the snake symbolism is primarily from the lore about *Saint* Brigit?

Which is actually one of the primary points I wanted to make.  For me, I think it's important to be clear on what symbols, ideas, etc. are coming from the *goddess's* lore vs the *saint's* lore vs UPG.  I'm not saying one is more valid than another, necessarily. But -- again, *for me* -- they feel different. I don't know how relevant that distinction is to you, but it's something to keep in mind.

The other point I wanted to touch on now is about duality. I think the system you're laying out is very interesting. I'm not sure if I agree or not, because, TBH, I think Brighid is beyond tidy systems. (In an earlier post, you did say something about worrying that you might be "shoehorning" Her into a box that didn't fit. ;-) ) It's been my experience that every time I think I have Her figured out and all Her info organized in my brain, I learn something new that shatters my neat, little system.

I'm mentioning this only as a heads up to you. Different people think about things differently, of course. What works for you might not work for me, and vice versa. And that's OK. It's just something for you to think about.

I feel like there's something else I wanted to say tonight, but I can't think of it. I've pretty much reached my limit of looking at the screen for now, anyway, so it'll have to wait.

Thank you for sharing your lightbulbs and musings! I'm always fascinated by how others see Brighid, and I always learn something.
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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 09:01:40 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156878

So that's the finer bits I've kinda got my head somewhat wrapped around.

 
Thank you for sharing all of this, Breeze. Like Aster and Sage, I'm finding a lot of resonance with some of your imagery and thoughts. I've been musing and poking around with a similar concept of "Dark Brighid" for a long time.

I don't have much else to say here, and anything Aster and Sage usually say it better, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more about your journey!
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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2014, 10:35:37 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
Your peacock, phoenix, and star symbols also resonate with me and have for some time, although I don't remember seeing either of those birds in other people's writing. (Which doesn't mean it's not out there. Just that I don't remember it. Because stupid brain.)


That's actually pretty awesome to hear!  When I got all of this, the peacock kinda bothered me a bit because I couldn't figure out why a Celtic goddess would have an interest in a bird originating in southern Asia.  But then I considered the symbolism and how I figure the gods evolve with the times and decided to set my minor quibbles aside.

Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
For me, the peacock symbolism is more about the eye imagery, which is connected to Sulis (there's archeological evidence for that) and therefore -- for me -- to Brighid.  The colors of the (typical male) peacock evoke both water and the night sky for me.


This is cool too.  I originally thought something about eyes, but the only thing I could remember in any of Her stories (goddess and/or saint) was about Her plucking Her eye out to get out of an arranged marriage.  I didn't know if it was a legitimate part of the UPG, something I connected with the Argus-Hera mythology, or if it had to do with my obsession with Evil Eye charms.

Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
The stars actually have several layers of meaning to me, including the link between stars and our sun. And the Lady of the Stars thing.  Which, to me, includes an important element of what you're referring to as "Dark Brighid" -- assuming I understand what you mean by "Dark Brighid", of course.


I've noticed that I have a really hard time putting words to what I mean about 'Dark Brighid' and I'm not sure why that is.  The way I'm understanding it, is somewhat like physically dark (the night, underworld, etc) but also metaphysically dark too ('dark goddess' akin to Hekate, Kali, and the Morrigan in popular thought).

Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
Snakes, OTOH, fit less well for me, personally. Intellectually, I understand the ideas behind it. And I don't have anything against snakes. They just don't really click for me as a Brighid symbol. IIRC, the snake symbolism is primarily from the lore about *Saint* Brigit?


I think that's where it is, but I really don't know.  I really, REALLY need to brush up on my mythology.  I'm still trying to figure this one out too though.  In daily life, I'm not really fond of snakes, but I really key in to the symbolism and their energy magically.  I still have quite a bit to figure out with this particular bit.

Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
Which is actually one of the primary points I wanted to make.  For me, I think it's important to be clear on what symbols, ideas, etc. are coming from the *goddess's* lore vs the *saint's* lore vs UPG.  I'm not saying one is more valid than another, necessarily. But -- again, *for me* -- they feel different. I don't know how relevant that distinction is to you, but it's something to keep in mind.


I really don't know exactly where I stand.  I have a hard time with *anything* that is    even remotely Christian in my practice.  It's a hang up from my childhood that I haven't worked all the way through yet.  But, when it comes to Brighid, I give the stories of the saint a nod and see if I can look past some of the obviously Christian stuff to see what was kept of the goddess in them, if anything.  I don't know if I think the goddess and saint are separate, or if the saint is just the goddess gone to Sunday School, or what really.  

Quote from: Aster Breo;156888
The other point I wanted to touch on now is about duality. I think the system you're laying out is very interesting. I'm not sure if I agree or not, because, TBH, I think Brighid is beyond tidy systems. (In an earlier post, you did say something about worrying that you might be "shoehorning" Her into a box that didn't fit. ;-) ) It's been my experience that every time I think I have Her figured out and all Her info organized in my brain, I learn something new that shatters my neat, little system.


I can definitely see this happening a little bit.  When I was writing down about how the dualism applied to the seasons it seemed kinda shaky.  I think the trick here might be using the symbology to better connect, while keeping in mind that it's sort of like a tool rather than letting it become a hard and fast rule.

Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2014, 10:37:44 pm »
Quote from: Finn;156891
Thank you for sharing all of this, Breeze. Like Aster and Sage, I'm finding a lot of resonance with some of your imagery and thoughts. I've been musing and poking around with a similar concept of "Dark Brighid" for a long time.

I don't have much else to say here, and anything Aster and Sage usually say it better, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more about your journey!

Thanks, Finn!  I was worried that I may have lost it a little or was trying to find ways to make Her something She's not, but the fact that you guys do kinda jive with some of it relived a lot of that fear.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 10:39:28 pm by Breeze »

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 08:29:35 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156945
Thanks, Finn!  I was worried that I may have lost it a little or was trying to find ways to make Her something She's not, but the fact that you guys do kinda jive with some of it relived a lot of that fear.

 
Just wanted to drop a note: there's a "Brig" goddess (one of the many Celtic goddesses with names that include the root "Brig" or some variation thereupon) named Bricta from Gaul who has some cthonic and magical associations in addition to the more expected "healing goddess from the Brig (high place)" association you get with these Ladies/this Lady. Literally just found out about her twenty minutes ago. When I read about Her it immediately reminded me of your thoughts in this thread.

The article in question is currently part of a larger work being written for Clann Bhride, but I can ask if it's cool to share a summation from it Here is a website with some info.

I personally see all these goddesses as the same person, so there's no question for me "is this Brighid or isn't this," but I completely understand if you or others don't share that experience. The site I linked to the last paragraph takes the stance that Bricta and Brighid are "probably not" the same goddess. So follow your heart and consult your pineal gland etc etc.
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Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 08:40:43 pm »
Quote from: Sage;157500
Just wanted to drop a note: there's a "Brig" goddess (one of the many Celtic goddesses with names that include the root "Brig" or some variation thereupon) named Bricta from Gaul who has some cthonic and magical associations in addition to the more expected "healing goddess from the Brig (high place)" association you get with these Ladies/this Lady. Literally just found out about her twenty minutes ago. When I read about Her it immediately reminded me of your thoughts in this thread.

The article in question is currently part of a larger work being written for Clann Bhride, but I can ask if it's cool to share a summation from it Here is a website with some info.

I personally see all these goddesses as the same person, so there's no question for me "is this Brighid or isn't this," but I completely understand if you or others don't share that experience. The site I linked to the last paragraph takes the stance that Bricta and Brighid are "probably not" the same goddess. So follow your heart and consult your pineal gland etc etc.


Very cool, Sage.  Thanks!  I'll dig around and see what I can find about Her.  I'm still working out the bit about all of the Brigs being Brighid or not.  I'm inclined to say I'm leaning yes, but I really just don't know yet.

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 10:05:41 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;156696

I doubt I’ve made much sense here, but I’m willing to clarify, explain, and elaborate on any of it.  So help me out, what do you make of all of this?

 
Prefacing this with the fact that I firmly believe that Brigit chose me to be her priestess, and not the other way around...

The longer I work with the Gods, the more I am convinced that (a) they are separate, distinct beings and (b) they are much more multifacted than we give them credit for. Or, in other words, they are so much like us.

Take me as an example. I'm an initiated Wiccan of an eclectic tradition. I'm an ADF Druid. I'm the president of a Star Trek group. I'm a rocket scientist. I hate peas. My favorite color is purple. I'm afraid of spiders. I share a birthday with my (late) mother.

All of those are me. And yet, if I were a God, you could say I was the Goddess of celtic Druidism. Or of people who like purple. Or of Trekkies. And that would be true, but it wouldn't be the whole picture. We look at our Gods, and yes, they are what the myth says, but I think they are so much more that we can discover, through our UPG experiences.

So I feel like the deeper I come to know the Gods, the more complex they become to me. LIke a good friend. You might get to know someone because they belong to a club with you, but if you really come to know them deeply, you know much more than the surface details, than the persona that they present to the world.

Karen

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 11:23:29 pm »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;158077
Prefacing this with the fact that I firmly believe that Brigit chose me to be her priestess, and not the other way around...

The longer I work with the Gods, the more I am convinced that (a) they are separate, distinct beings and (b) they are much more multifacted than we give them credit for. Or, in other words, they are so much like us.

Take me as an example. I'm an initiated Wiccan of an eclectic tradition. I'm an ADF Druid. I'm the president of a Star Trek group. I'm a rocket scientist. I hate peas. My favorite color is purple. I'm afraid of spiders. I share a birthday with my (late) mother.

All of those are me. And yet, if I were a God, you could say I was the Goddess of celtic Druidism. Or of people who like purple. Or of Trekkies. And that would be true, but it wouldn't be the whole picture. We look at our Gods, and yes, they are what the myth says, but I think they are so much more that we can discover, through our UPG experiences.

So I feel like the deeper I come to know the Gods, the more complex they become to me. LIke a good friend. You might get to know someone because they belong to a club with you, but if you really come to know them deeply, you know much more than the surface details, than the persona that they present to the world.

Karen


All of this makes so much sense.  I was really worried because I looked at my UPG and then looked at oothers' perceptions of Brighid and their UPG and it seemed like they didn't mesh at all.  But, that's the nature of UPG I guess.  Thinking about myself in terms of your example: I'm a Witch, I cook, garden, read Tarot, and a whole list of other things.  Only looking at the examples here individually portrays a fraction of the whole.  Even looking at that list together only still portrays a slim piece of me.  The part about knoowing someone on a deeper level really brings it all together.  My best friends could describe me and most people wouldn't believe parts because they don't know me in totality, only the bits I let them know.

Breeze

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Re: Changing perceptions of Brighid
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2014, 11:29:24 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;158081




I wanted to hang this here, just to give a kind of update to the whole goings on.  I'm still learning quite a bit about Brighid.  Not only just from the lore or the UPG bits, but ways that She and I work together better and places where our energies don't mesh as well.  I've also been trying to juggle keeping up with Her and Hekate (which I tend to not do, one at a time for an extended period of time is typically the way I approach god-work-stuff).  It seems like every time I try to focus on Hekate, Brighid comes to the forefront.  It's gotten to the point to where I really can't even meditate on Hekate because Brighid tends to take over.  It's strange because Hekate's energy and my own mesh a lot easier than Brighid's and mine does, but I can still sense Hekate more often and more easily than I can Brighid.  The whole changing perceptions thing keeps growing, but I'm still not sure as to the 'why' or what fors'.

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