Author Topic: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while. (Read 3080 times)

TheElegantShadow · « **on:** August 17, 2014, 04:45:27 am »

So, I've been wondering a few things ever since I started learning about Witchcraft, Paganism, and the like. I learn better from interaction than from books, as it would seem, so I thought a forum would be the best place to get some answers. Anywho, here are my questions:

So, I was into Wicca, in a way, for a while. A lot of the books I got told of consecrations, making objects and spaces sacred, and the tools, "Necessary," for rituals and such. Well, I've come to find out that there are a lot of differences between Wicca and Celtic Paganism, and due to that, I'm confused on whether I do need to like for instance, pour salted water onto an object to make it sacred to my own energy, or can I just add to my Alter whenever? Like, I've heard that Celtic Pagans (a good portion, at least) view objects and places as sacred just by their own energies, which I do like a lot, but I'm just not certain on whether I sure consecration still, or not. And if consecration isn't necessary, then how would I, for instance, get the energy of another off of my own tools and such?

Speaking of tools, what are tools that are typically agreed upon to use in Celtic Spellwork and Rituals? How and why should I use them, and what are the, "Need to have," of them?

How does one physically clean their tools and Alter without washing away the energy on said items? I've had a hard time with this, since mine has gotten dusty and has a bit of candle wax on it, but I've heard that cleaning can wash away the energies you'd actually want around. What would you guys suggest?

How does one begin their Warrior/Poet/etc Path? I'm not entirely sure on what they are or what they represent, nor am I certain of whether I could aspire to be any one or combination of these Paths.

How can I... Hmm... Separate the Christian elements from some Celtic info out there? I've read about how the Monks of those times changed quite a bit regarding the lore, culture, Mythology(ies), and with the lack of written text that described the actual stories and such from oral traditions, a lot of it is hard to decipher.

Would it be possible to venerate both Norse and Celtic/Gaulish Gods and Goddesses? I've heard that there was enough overlap between the two that it would be possible to an extant, but I want to make sure.

Lastly, are these reliable sources for learning of the stories and past of the Celts: http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/

http://www.timelessmyths.com/

Finn · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2014, 12:20:14 pm »

I can't really speak to your first questions, but I can briefly answer these ones:

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

How can I... Hmm... Separate the Christian elements from some Celtic info out there? I've read about how the Monks of those times changed quite a bit regarding the lore, culture, Mythology(ies), and with the lack of written text that described the actual stories and such from oral traditions, a lot of it is hard to decipher.

The truth is that there is no simple way do this.

Many people, including scholars, historians, and archaeologists, have been working with these myths for ages trying to find the "the original" versions, which is impossible to find working from a modern perspective with an incomplete understanding of the specific cultures, languages, and people these myths lived in. We're working with a gigantic puzzle with tons of pieces missing. Anything found, written, oral, or found in archaeological evidence, is subject to a wide number of interpretations.

Additionally, Christianity has deep roots in many of the Celtic lands and traditions, and untangling it from the "original" pagan mythology is not only immensely difficult, considering our written sources date from when the Celtic lands were already heavily Christianized, but it can be dismissive of the unique Celtic-Christian traditions and bodies of belief that evolved from the Christianization of the Celtic lands. Which I think is not only highly unfair, but only adds to the problem of having an incomplete understanding of the cultures Celtic pagans find so much inspiration in.

Reading about some scholars' own interpretations and work with Celtic mythology can help. I would check out the CR FAQ Reading List for some starters.

Quote

Would it be possible to venerate both Norse and Celtic/Gaulish Gods and Goddesses? I've heard that there was enough overlap between the two that it would be possible to an extant, but I want to make sure.

Don't see why not.

Quote

Lastly, are these reliable sources for learning of the stories and past of the Celts: http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/

http://www.timelessmyths.com/

Absolutely. The last is more of a distillation/summary of the information contained in the original sources, which can be found at Mary Jones' site or at the Digital Medievalist.

Vale · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2014, 12:54:19 pm »

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

So, I was into Wicca, in a way, for a while. A lot of the books I got told of consecrations, making objects and spaces sacred, and the tools, "Necessary," for rituals and such. Well, I've come to find out that there are a lot of differences between Wicca and Celtic Paganism, and due to that, I'm confused on whether I do need to like for instance, pour salted water onto an object to make it sacred to my own energy, or can I just add to my Alter whenever? Like, I've heard that Celtic Pagans (a good portion, at least) view objects and places as sacred just by their own energies, which I do like a lot, but I'm just not certain on whether I sure consecration still, or not. And if consecration isn't necessary, then how would I, for instance, get the energy of another off of my own tools and such?

Depends on what you actually mean by Celtic pagan. That is a very broad and rather vague description you are using there.

I'm non Wiccan, Welsh and pagan so I guess that makes me a celtic pagan but whether that is what you mean I don't know! I have never bothered with washing things in salted water to "cleanse" them. I was taught to consecrate through use which is what I do. I make sure my tools and working area are physically clean though. Wiping or rinsing with plain water generally does that. If I want to make a special effort I'll use pure spring water but that is as far as I go.

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

Speaking of tools, what are tools that are typically agreed upon to use in Celtic Spellwork and Rituals? How and why should I use them, and what are the, "Need to have," of them?

What do you feel you need? I follow the ways of the cunningfolk so have few "special" tools. They would have used what they had rather than the luxury of items kept just for witchcraft. Where I do have some special tools I've bought them because they pleased me rather than because I needed them and in fact most of them sit in boxes whilst I use the glass and bowls I've just taken from the kitchen, the piece of driftwood from the beach and the pretty stone I found on a walk that day...

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

How does one physically clean their tools and Alter without washing away the energy on said items? I've had a hard time with this, since mine has gotten dusty and has a bit of candle wax on it, but I've heard that cleaning can wash away the energies you'd actually want around. What would you guys suggest?

See above. I do not believe that inherent energies can be removed by simple cleaning. If they can then I do not consider them worth having.

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

How can I... Hmm... Separate the Christian elements from some Celtic info out there? I've read about how the Monks of those times changed quite a bit regarding the lore, culture, Mythology(ies), and with the lack of written text that described the actual stories and such from oral traditions, a lot of it is hard to decipher.

I've got better at this over time. It is a matter of looking through the christian filter on the mythologies into what lies beneath.

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156036

Would it be possible to venerate both Norse and Celtic/Gaulish Gods and Goddesses? I've heard that there was enough overlap between the two that it would be possible to an extant, but I want to make sure.

I don't but many do.

TheElegantShadow · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2014, 06:16:39 am »

Quote from: Finn;156086

I can't really speak to your first questions, but I can briefly answer these ones:

The truth is that there is no simple way do this.

Many people, including scholars, historians, and archaeologists, have been working with these myths for ages trying to find the "the original" versions, which is impossible to find working from a modern perspective with an incomplete understanding of the specific cultures, languages, and people these myths lived in. We're working with a gigantic puzzle with tons of pieces missing. Anything found, written, oral, or found in archaeological evidence, is subject to a wide number of interpretations.

Additionally, Christianity has deep roots in many of the Celtic lands and traditions, and untangling it from the "original" pagan mythology is not only immensely difficult, considering our written sources date from when the Celtic lands were already heavily Christianized, but it can be dismissive of the unique Celtic-Christian traditions and bodies of belief that evolved from the Christianization of the Celtic lands. Which I think is not only highly unfair, but only adds to the problem of having an incomplete understanding of the cultures Celtic pagans find so much inspiration in.

Reading about some scholars' own interpretations and work with Celtic mythology can help. I would check out the CR FAQ Reading List for some starters.

I see. I actually didn't know that it ran that deep, so to speak. O_O!

Oh! I've been to that FAQ before. I had neglected to familiarize myself with the suggested reading material. I'll take a look at it!

Quote from: Finn;156086

Don't see why not.

Good to know. I've felt an attraction to both Mythologies and Pantheons (and Slavic, but I'm not sure if it falls under the same case as the other two), so to be able to do something from both would be fantastic. Thank you!

Quote from: Finn;156086

Absolutely. The last is more of a distillation/summary of the information contained in the original sources, which can be found at Mary Jones' site or at the Digital Medievalist.

Ah! I picked well, then.

Quote from: Vale;156092

Depends on what you actually mean by Celtic pagan. That is a very broad and rather vague description you are using there.

I'm non Wiccan, Welsh and pagan so I guess that makes me a celtic pagan but whether that is what you mean I don't know! I have never bothered with washing things in salted water to "cleanse" them. I was taught to consecrate through use which is what I do. I make sure my tools and working area are physically clean though. Wiping or rinsing with plain water generally does that. If I want to make a special effort I'll use pure spring water but that is as far as I go.

Well, and I'm not completely certain if this answers your question, but I've been looking into Irish and Gaulish (well, I was looking into Gaulish Celtic Paganism, but... the Site, "Taires" I think was the name, seems to have went down.) Celtic Paganism. I'm not looking to mix and match, at least, not right now, I'm mostly just seeing which, "branch," has the most leaves to pluck from, in my case.

Ah. Thank you! That's boggled me for the longest time, due to not really even knowing where to look up that type of information. I think that I know how I'll go about it, from now on.

Quote from: Vale;156092

What do you feel you need? I follow the ways of the cunningfolk so have few "special" tools. They would have used what they had rather than the luxury of items kept just for witchcraft. Where I do have some special tools I've bought them because they pleased me rather than because I needed them and in fact most of them sit in boxes whilst I use the glass and bowls I've just taken from the kitchen, the piece of driftwood from the beach and the pretty stone I found on a walk that day...

Hmm... I'm still not sure of what ways I want to follow, in that regard. That said, I mostly use candles and herbs. I had bought quite a few things previously, because I was under the impression that they were needed, but at the time, I was learning from a very... opinionated book, to say the least. One item that I do possess that does feel special to me would be this one candle holder I have, and the candle within it. It reminds me of autumn, my favorite season, and well, I associate autumn with death, or the state before it. Without getting all complicated about it, that holds sentimental meaning to me, despite me still not having a consistent use for said candle.

But I think I understand what you're saying. Basically, "Just do what feels right"?

Quote from: Vale;156092

See above. I do not believe that inherent energies can be removed by simple cleaning. If they can then I do not consider them worth having.

Noted. Well, I'll finally be able to clean the dust from my Alter without fear of losing anything valuable! ^_^

Quote from: Vale;156092

I've got better at this over time. It is a matter of looking through the christian filter on the mythologies into what lies beneath.

I'll try. Hmm... Well, I fancy myself somewhat good at finding subtitle things, so... I might end up fruitful in my findings, with time, naturally.

Quote from: Vale;156092

I don't but many do.

Thank you! Like I had said to Finn, being able to venture through both Pantheons would be really great, so this is good news! :3

Thank you both, for taking the time to answer my questions here! Hmm... I have a lot to do and think about now. ^_^

Vale · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2014, 02:03:16 pm »

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156217

Hmm... I'm still not sure of what ways I want to follow, in that regard. That said, I mostly use candles and herbs. I had bought quite a few things previously, because I was under the impression that they were needed, but at the time, I was learning from a very... opinionated book, to say the least. One item that I do possess that does feel special to me would be this one candle holder I have, and the candle within it. It reminds me of autumn, my favorite season, and well, I associate autumn with death, or the state before it. Without getting all complicated about it, that holds sentimental meaning to me, despite me still not having a consistent use for said candle.

But I think I understand what you're saying. Basically, "Just do what feels right"?

Noted. Well, I'll finally be able to clean the dust from my Alter without fear of losing anything valuable! ^_^

I think the secret is to ask yourself why you need something. The candleholder obviously resonates with you deeply which is an excellent reason to use it. Otherwise if you stop and really think about what function a tool or herb/stone is actually performing in your workings you can substitute quite easily if necessary. For example I have a very beautiful pottery chalice in the shape of a stags head. Do I use it? Hardly ever. I just use a wine glass or a plain small bowl which was given to me by the Maid of my tradition. Whichever of the 2 happens to be clean and to hand.....

I am convinced that a lot of books are written just to keep the metaphysical stores in business!;)

TheElegantShadow · « **Reply #5 on:** August 19, 2014, 09:14:18 am »

Quote from: Vale;156282

I think the secret is to ask yourself why you need something. The candleholder obviously resonates with you deeply which is an excellent reason to use it. Otherwise if you stop and really think about what function a tool or herb/stone is actually performing in your workings you can substitute quite easily if necessary. For example I have a very beautiful pottery chalice in the shape of a stags head. Do I use it? Hardly ever. I just use a wine glass or a plain small bowl which was given to me by the Maid of my tradition. Whichever of the 2 happens to be clean and to hand.....

I am convinced that a lot of books are written just to keep the metaphysical stores in business!;)

Hmm... Yes, I what you mean. I'll try asking myself that whenever before I buy anything, from now on. I'm usually just like, "Ooooh, shiny!" without any rhyme or reason to why I bought it. Ironically, the things that I've bought thus far, I didn't find immediate use for. It wasn't until I sat down and asked myself, "Okay, I have this, what can I use it for, and why?" that those items actually acquired meaning to me.

Yeah... Not the first time I've heard that, either. There isn't even one around where I am, though, so, the temptation is kept to a minimum. XD

SunflowerP · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2014, 03:01:30 am »

Quote from: TheElegantShadow;156217

I(well, I was looking into Gaulish Celtic Paganism, but... the Site, "Taires" I think was the name, seems to have went down.)

It looks like it's up right now! Possibly you couldn't find it because you were spelling it 'Taires', instead of Tairis?

(Seren, who runs that site, is actually a member here on TC, though she doesn't post often.)

Sunflower

TheElegantShadow · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2014, 02:25:46 am »

Quote from: SunflowerP;156583

It looks like it's up right now! Possibly you couldn't find it because you were spelling it 'Taires', instead of Tairis?

(Seren, who runs that site, is actually a member here on TC, though she doesn't post often.)

Sunflower

Oh, I did misspell it, then. :I

Well, no, it had just up and stopped working. I tried going onto the site manually (because I had it on one of my Tabs, at the time), but I kept getting a message with something like, "Cannot connect to Site," or something like that. But yeah, I'm just happy I can continue reading from it, now. XD

Oh, cool! I'd love to pick her brain a bit, sometime. I'm loving reading through Tairis. =D

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Author Topic: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while. (Read 3080 times)

TheElegantShadow

Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

Finn

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

Vale

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

TheElegantShadow

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

Vale

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

TheElegantShadow

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

SunflowerP

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

TheElegantShadow

Re: Just some questions that have been floating around my head, for a while.

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