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Author Topic: Advice please: I'm 8mths pregnant and husband has made me take down my altar  (Read 9353 times)

Shan

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NOTE: This is an old thread. The original poster has not replied to anything said in this thread in ages, so there is little point in replying to it. The original poster is unlikely to see any reply you might make.


Hi there,
I'm new on this forum but in need on some advice.
For the past 5 years I have had a permanent altar set up in my lounge room on a wine rack. It has been home to dozens of symbolic knick-knacks, crystals, candles and incense. Here is where I would light my silver and gold God and Goddess candles to pay respect to them, offer thanks, or ask for help as needed. I usually offer fruit, flowers or wine. I always refer to the as "The God and The Goddess" rather than specific names.

Anyway, after a HUGE fight my husband demanded that I get rid of the altar. We've been together 3 years and we now live in his house. In fact, he took the black cat figurine and smashed it on the floor. He told me if I didn't pack it all up straight away, he would keep smashing things. So I did as he asked and now everything is in a box.

I am also 32 weeks (8months) pregnant, and obviously we are having some pretty major marital problems. I really feel the need to ask the God and Goddess for help saving my marriage but don't know how I can do this without an altar ???

My husband wants to kick me out of the house, but I am trying to hold on to my marriage. Our first baby will be here in about 8 weeks! Not to mention that I am finishing up at work and will have no income for the first time in my life - so I'll be dependent on husband for money/food/etc. If he kicks me out, I will end up stone cold broke and possibly bankrupt as I will be unable to pay my debts.

So I guess my question is, how can I ask the God and Goddess for help now that I don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?
Can I do it just with a gold and silver candle and an offerring?
Can I do it in the morning after husband leaves for work, rather than at night when he is home?

Also, if anyone has any good advice on saving a marriage, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks for reading my post :)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 09:34:15 pm by RandallS »

Faemon

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Quote from: Shan;155461
I really feel the need to ask the God and Goddess for help saving my marriage but don't know how I can do this without an altar ???

 
First, I'm sympathetic and even horrified that you're suffering through this. Second, I frankly think that not having an altar is the least of your issues.

I might see it that way because I have never had an altar. They've just tended to be too clunky for my own aesthetics, and I suppose that it represents a grounded sort of officiality that I've never had. My practice is more Celtic Recon influenced, so, votive-stones-tossed-in-a-body-of-water...in that sense every pool is an altar and I even have a blue pouch with an embroidered starfish on it because that symbolizes a body of water to me. I put stones in my pouch, if I can't access a body of water. This isn't the basis by which I connect with divinity, however, it's a boost. I can do entirely without it because my soul has a connection (on these forums, we call it "godbothered" and "thwapped")

Mostly, though, I see it that way because even if you switched to a little bag to put your offerings in...It's not going to stop there.

It's not.

The way I see it, your husband does not want you to even have your faith, no matter what form that is, he does not want you to practice your faith at all. He doesn't want you to feel faith in your heart, but that's not something that another person can or should control or be concerned about.

He's resorted to violence in order to control you.

He would resort to kicking out his dependents. That's economic abuse and neglect.

My advice would be to get out, get out of there, get out, get away from there, get out. His getting angry is not something you can avoid by ever doing anything right; You cannot make him keep you around, let alone keep you and your child safe. He is always going to hang that homelessness over your head. The way I read all this, is that this isn't a relationship. Your marriage isn't something that you can save. Get out and save yourself.

Find a friend. Find a women's shelter. Find a social worker. Those will help you, not continuing with that violent, horribly inconsiderate, controlling jerk. Get out.



There are extenuating circumstances, I'm sure, and you're better situated to know more about your situation than I am. There must be some appeal, that you got into the marriage in the first place; there must be something good in all this that you want to save. Maybe you blame yourself and your role in specific events or in general, because taking responsibility feels empowering, so you think that there's still something you can do.

But I would still say it's a lost cause, so just get out before he explodes.
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savveir

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Quote from: Shan;155461
Hi there,
I'm new on this forum but in need on some advice.
....
snip

 
To answer your question about Altars, no you don't need to have one up to do things, but that's just my opinion.
Your husband seems to be a lot of a problem though, do you have anywhere else you can go stay for the rest of your pregnancy? A relative or friend? Otherwise it may be worth looking at WIRE, or doing a quick search for resources in your state. You'll need to figure out what's in your best interests, do you feel comfortable staying with your husband for the rest of the pregnancy and then with a newborn? It's your choice, but it might help to check out some resources, call a help line if you feel you can. There are services out there that can help you :)
"I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."
-Lewis Carroll

Mountain Cat

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Quote from: Shan;155461
So I guess my question is, how can I ask the God and Goddess for help now that I don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?



Why is he against you having an altar?

I don't imagine your god or goddess would turn away from you in your need if you were unable to offer them the full devotions to which you are accustomed. Prayer can be helpful, no candles necessary. Try meditating and visualizing the altar and the procedures you go through, both as an alternative to doing it in reality and as assistance in your prayer. But if you are going to have to do your devotions and such in secret for now on, how is that going to make you feel? Is it worth it? Can there be a compromise? Something smaller, out of sight if it offends him? He sounds a bit scary.

For keeping things together, if you feel it is best, try counseling. Babies are hard on people. Is it going to be a safe place?

Maybe stay with family or friends for a bit, see if distance helps you to see better options for yourself and your child.

Be safe.

Chabas

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Quote from: Shan;155461



Shan,

First congratulations on the upcoming baby!

Second your husband. As far as petitioning your Gods goes, I'd suspect They aren't so limited that they can't hear you without an altar. So pray in whatever way you feel comfortable.

However, I'd also think hard about what outcome is best here. Obviously, I have met neither you nor your husband - hell, I'm at the opposite end of the earth! - but the situation you're describing sounds abusive. There are various checklists available online that you might check to get more of a feel, but certainly the fact that he threatens to leave you homeless at 8 months pregnancy, and has sufficient temper problems that he breaks your stuff are concerns, as well as his putting pressure on your religious choices. Is this really the best and safest environment for you and your baby? Be aware that pregnancy and child birth are common situations for domestic abuse to escalate.

Now I'm 4 months pregnant myself, so I can certainly grasp that now is not the time when you feel most confident about striking out on your own. So get help. Ask friends and family for help. If that's not an option, Australia, like most Western countries, does have helplines available to support you. I know we've got members from Australia who can help you find those in your area.

Stay safe. Stay healthy. Take care of yourself before your marriage - if it's a good marriage, it will stand that, and if it's not, it's better that it doesn't.

--Chabas

deadlynightshade

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Quote from: Shan;155461


So I guess my question is, how can I ask the God and Goddess for help now that I don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?
Can I do it just with a gold and silver candle and an offerring?
Can I do it in the morning after husband leaves for work, rather than at night when he is home?

Also, if anyone has any good advice on saving a marriage, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks for reading my post :)

 
To answer the altar question: You don't need an altar, or tools, to do anything. This is your faith, it can be, well, whatever you want it to be. Whatever feels right- you could just use the candles and offering, you could pray, you could take a walk to somewhere that feels right and ask your Gods there for help.

As for the marriage: has he ever behaved like this before? His behaviour does sound abusive. You need to think critically, and objectively, about this situation- what would you advise a friend to do, if she told you her boyfriend was treating her the way your boyfriend is treating you? It is very, very easy to fall into a cycle of abuse, and very, very hard to get out. It's common for abusers to escalate around life events such as pregnancy and giving birth (as well as things like engagement and marriage). Typically, people tell themselves "It's okay, he/she will stop after the birth/wedding, he/she's just stressed right now." In reality? After the wedding, or the birth, or whatever, they get worse because now they feel an even stronger bond of "ownership". It's all about power, for abusers. You'll never do anything right with them, no matter how hard you try. If you recognize any kind of abusive behaviour within your husband, then please, get out now, before you have the baby. From what you've said, your husband exhibits:
1. Controlling behaviour (trying to control your faith.)
2. Threatening behaviour (both threatening to throw you out, and threatening to make you take down your altar.) This kind of thing only escalates.
3. Purposefully breaking something important to you (which he must've known some significance of, if it was on your altar.) This shows disregard for your faith, and with it, your opinions and feelings.
4. Manipulative behaviour (The threats come across as very manipulative to me. He appears to be manipulating your emotions, to me.)
Besides all of that, a husband that doesn't even respect you enough not to try and control your faith? That's not exactly going to work out great, in the long term, even if he's not abusive.
I may be reading into this too much- but several other people have picked up on it, too. Seriously, think completely objectively about your relationship, and if he does exhibit any controlling, manipulative, threatening or hurtful behaviour, get out as soon as you can. Do try a checklist online, but that's not your only resource and it's not a final answer. Try talking to a women's shelter, or to a friend, or something. Please take care of yourself.

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Quote from: Shan;155461

Thanks for reading my post :)

 
I agree with what others have said. Please take what steps you can to get to a healthy and safe space!
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Nyktelios

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Quote from: Shan;155461
Does anyone have any advice?

Maybe prayer beads would help, similar to a Catholic rosary. You could buy a rosary at a Catholic shop and replace the crucifix with a pentacle, or just make your own by putting some beads and a pagan symbol on a string. I've seen bead shops that sell pentacles and those kinds of things. It would help you focus your prayers without all the extra stuff.

About your marriage situation, I would echo this:

Quote from: Faemon;155465
My advice would be to get out, get out of there, get out, get away from there, get out. His getting angry is not something you can avoid by ever doing anything right; You cannot make him keep you around, let alone keep you and your child safe. He is always going to hang that homelessness over your head. The way I read all this, is that this isn't a relationship. Your marriage isn't something that you can save. Get out and save yourself.

Find a friend. Find a women's shelter. Find a social worker. Those will help you, not continuing with that violent, horribly inconsiderate, controlling jerk. Get out.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 09:26:29 am by Nyktelios »

Kyndyl

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Quote from: Shan;155461
Hi there,
I'm new on this forum but in need on some advice.
For the past 5 years I have had a permanent altar set up in my lounge room on a wine rack. It has been home to dozens of symbolic knick-knacks, crystals, candles and incense. Here is where I would light my silver and gold God and Goddess candles to pay respect to them, offer thanks, or ask for help as needed. I usually offer fruit, flowers or wine. I always refer to the as "The God and The Goddess" rather than specific names.

Anyway, after a HUGE fight my husband demanded that I get rid of the altar. We've been together 3 years and we now live in his house. In fact, he took the black cat figurine and smashed it on the floor. He told me if I didn't pack it all up straight away, he would keep smashing things. So I did as he asked and now everything is in a box.

I am also 32 weeks (8months) pregnant, and obviously we are having some pretty major marital problems. I really feel the need to ask the God and Goddess for help saving my marriage but don't know how I can do this without an altar ???

My husband wants to kick me out of the house, but I am trying to hold on to my marriage. Our first baby will be here in about 8 weeks! Not to mention that I am finishing up at work and will have no income for the first time in my life - so I'll be dependent on husband for money/food/etc. If he kicks me out, I will end up stone cold broke and possibly bankrupt as I will be unable to pay my debts.

So I guess my question is, how can I ask the God and Goddess for help now that I don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?
Can I do it just with a gold and silver candle and an offerring?
Can I do it in the morning after husband leaves for work, rather than at night when he is home?

Also, if anyone has any good advice on saving a marriage, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks for reading my post :)

 

first: I'm so sorry that you're experiencing this especially in your physical condition..
Second: the gods hear us.. an Altar is a help ,but not required.. pray and they'll herar..

now comes the other part about your situation. He's being abusive.. and it won't stop with the Altar. He smashed something he knows you loved to get you to comply. What does that say about his love for you? or the child you're bringing into this world? If he's using violence now.. do you truly think it's the best for you and the child who will be here shortly to remain and let him escalate? because he will. Get out, to a shelter, freinds, family, Get a restraining order and start proceedings to get a divorce, a restraining order, and demand he pay your expenses. and child and spousal support since his abusive actions are leaving you without support. I truly hope you get to someplace safe. and that your child arrives into a safe and loving home where you can raise them in love and not fear like you're experiencing now.

missgraceless

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Quote from: shan;155461
hi there,
i'm new on this forum but in need on some advice.
For the past 5 years i have had a permanent altar set up in my lounge room on a wine rack. It has been home to dozens of symbolic knick-knacks, crystals, candles and incense. Here is where i would light my silver and gold god and goddess candles to pay respect to them, offer thanks, or ask for help as needed. I usually offer fruit, flowers or wine. I always refer to the as "the god and the goddess" rather than specific names.

Anyway, after a huge fight my husband demanded that i get rid of the altar. We've been together 3 years and we now live in his house. In fact, he took the black cat figurine and smashed it on the floor. He told me if i didn't pack it all up straight away, he would keep smashing things. So i did as he asked and now everything is in a box.

I am also 32 weeks (8months) pregnant, and obviously we are having some pretty major marital problems. I really feel the need to ask the god and goddess for help saving my marriage but don't know how i can do this without an altar ???

My husband wants to kick me out of the house, but i am trying to hold on to my marriage. Our first baby will be here in about 8 weeks! Not to mention that i am finishing up at work and will have no income for the first time in my life - so i'll be dependent on husband for money/food/etc. If he kicks me out, i will end up stone cold broke and possibly bankrupt as i will be unable to pay my debts.

So i guess my question is, how can i ask the god and goddess for help now that i don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?
Can i do it just with a gold and silver candle and an offerring?
Can i do it in the morning after husband leaves for work, rather than at night when he is home?

Also, if anyone has any good advice on saving a marriage, i'd love to hear it!

Thanks for reading my post :)

 
Get. Out. Now.


I'm not even addressing your altar question because you have bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

Seriously, sweetie. I was in an incredibly similar situation in high school when I first started exploring paganism. He didn't want me to have an altar, actually banned me from being pagan because according to him, we wouldn't be "together in the afterlife because I'd be reincarnated as a tree."

We can't reiterate enough how much you need to get out of that house. Like everyone else said, get out, find shelter from family, friends, anywhere but there. File for divorce. Get a restraining order. Get spousal and child support. You're not alone in this. Even if a good amount of us Cauldronites can't physically do anything for you, we're here for support. And obviously advice.

This is one of the top Google searches for domestic violence helplines in Australia. It's got a ton of information and some phone numbers to call. It says if you're in danger NOW to call 000.

Please, please, get out of there. We're all praying to keep you safe.
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Sarah

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Quote from: Shan;155461
Hi there,
I'm new on this forum but in need on some advice.
For the past 5 years I have had a permanent altar set up in my lounge room on a wine rack. It has been home to dozens of symbolic knick-knacks, crystals, candles and incense. Here is where I would light my silver and gold God and Goddess candles to pay respect to them, offer thanks, or ask for help as needed. I usually offer fruit, flowers or wine. I always refer to the as "The God and The Goddess" rather than specific names.

Anyway, after a HUGE fight my husband demanded that I get rid of the altar. We've been together 3 years and we now live in his house. In fact, he took the black cat figurine and smashed it on the floor. He told me if I didn't pack it all up straight away, he would keep smashing things. So I did as he asked and now everything is in a box.

I am also 32 weeks (8months) pregnant, and obviously we are having some pretty major marital problems. I really feel the need to ask the God and Goddess for help saving my marriage but don't know how I can do this without an altar ???

My husband wants to kick me out of the house, but I am trying to hold on to my marriage. Our first baby will be here in about 8 weeks! Not to mention that I am finishing up at work and will have no income for the first time in my life - so I'll be dependent on husband for money/food/etc. If he kicks me out, I will end up stone cold broke and possibly bankrupt as I will be unable to pay my debts.

So I guess my question is, how can I ask the God and Goddess for help now that I don't have an altar?

Does anyone have any advice?
Can I do it just with a gold and silver candle and an offerring?
Can I do it in the morning after husband leaves for work, rather than at night when he is home?

Also, if anyone has any good advice on saving a marriage, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks for reading my post :)

 

I agree with everyone else's advice but i also wanted to ask if you would like me to burn a a candle to my gods for you or say prayers or do any magic workings?

Also if you want to talk I am on skype and Facebook chat. Drop me a PM if you want my details
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

missgraceless

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Quote from: Jake_;155492
I agree with everyone else's advice but i also wanted to ask if you would like me to burn a a candle to my gods for you or say prayers or do any magic workings?

Also if you want to talk I am on skype and Facebook chat. Drop me a PM if you want my details

 
I didn't even think of that. I'm on Skype too, if you want. And (only if you're okay with it) I can light a candle and pray to Quan Yin for your safety.
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Aster Breo

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Quote from: missgraceless;155488

This is one of the top Google searches for domestic violence helplines in Australia. It's got a ton of information and some phone numbers to call. It says if you're in danger NOW to call 000.

Note, too, that this organization's website also has a phone number for telephone counseling and an option for online counseling.  They can help you figure out exactly what you need to do and where you can go to be safe.

What you've described does sound abusive and extremely scary.  But you're the only one who can determine what's really going on. Is this the first time he's done something like this -- threatened you, broken something in anger, belittled your faith, your emotions, your needs -- or is it part of a larger pattern?  Maybe a larger pattern you've been trying not to see?  If this is the first time, do you want to wait around to see how he handles the extreme stresses of caring for a newborn?

Many women stay with abusers for a long time because they're afraid to leave -- afraid that they won't be able to support themselves and their children.  But you can. There are people who will help you.

The fact that you've come to a forum and posted this question shows that you know something is wrong and that you need to do something about it. You don't have to decide immediately. Leaving your home, filing for a restraining order, and filing for divorce are all huge, scary steps that you might not be ready to take yet.  But that baby will be here sooner than you think.

If you do nothing else right now, PLEASE call the 24-hour number on the website linked above (1800 737 732) and talk to them, or just click on the link to access their online counseling.

Right now.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Shan

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Thank you everyone for your responses. I suppose I am in a bit of denial about how bad the situation is, but you guys as "outsiders looking in" are all seeing things far more clearly than I wanted to.

I have been in touch with a free domestic violence service and they are able to help me with regards to a women's shelter, counselling, etc.

I guess I have 3 weeks of work left, so I am just trying to make it through that time. Bub is due first week of October, so I have 5 weeks off work before she gets here (unpaid of course, which is why I really need these last 3 pay checks). After I finish work at the end of the month, I can go back to my home town where I am booked in to have my baby anyway. All my family and school friends are there, mum, grandma, etc.

Going home to have the baby is an easy way for me to pack the car with my important things, papers, clothes, etc and not arouse any suspicion to cause further fights.

At least once the baby is born I can get child support and government assistance so I won't have to come back, nor could he make me.

I guess I'm just embarrassed and ashamed that my marriage is failing in its first year. I always wanted to get married, and I couldn't wait to have a baby. I'm in my 30's so after my career and travelling, I wanted to settle down and be a mum.

Years ago, after being single for many years, I prayed to my god and goddess to bring love into my life, to find me a man, to find me a husband. When I met my husband, I prayed we could get married and live happily ever after. Well as we know, I did get married... but now I wonder if my "magic" has backfired. I felt as though the god and goddess did bring me a wonderful man, so I thought he was the one. But I wonder if the prayers to get married were "forcing" him into it, and is that why things aren't working out? Like we were meant to meet, but not meant to marry? Maybe none of this makes any sense... sorry. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say.

But thank you all for being so blunt. I would rather think I can fix this and save my marriage than believe the situation really is as bad as it is. I posted on an anon forum to get an objective opinion from strangers, and that's exactly what I've gotten: a view-point I couldn't (or refused to) see for myself.

I've been too ashamed to tell my friends/family. But if they were in the same situation as me, I would be appalled and disgusted with the way their husband was treating them. And I can't believe I've allowed myself to get in this situation.

I will slowly pack up over the next 3 weeks, and then go home to my family. I think I will be safe in this time, I'll just have to "endure" the arguments.

Thank you for the offers of prayers, I welcome them very much, thank you.
(but I'll stay off skype until I am out of his house)

Thank you all for your input ... and wake-up call :)

Sefiru

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Quote from: Shan;155525
but now I wonder if my "magic" has backfired. I felt as though the god and goddess did bring me a wonderful man, so I thought he was the one. But I wonder if the prayers to get married were "forcing" him into it, and is that why things aren't working out? Like we were meant to meet, but not meant to marry? Maybe none of this makes any sense... sorry. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say.

 
Please, don't go down this road. This is another version of "it must be something I did that made him treat me like this." Your magic did not "make him" marry you against his will, any more than you "made him" break your belongings.

You did not cause his behavior.

And if you have trouble believing in yourself, believe in us who believe in you. (And a high-five if you get that super nerdy reference.)
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Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

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