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Author Topic: A little help with choosing a path?  (Read 6803 times)

Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2014, 02:19:38 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;155759
We may have hit a snag. :)

Maybe I'm misreading this, but in heathenry there isn't really an idea of a beyond. It's the difference between a world-accepting (or world-indifferent) and world-rejecting religion. I know jack shit about Hinduism, but I think it's world-rejecting, in that ones goal is to ascend to something? Christianity is also world-rejecting, one hopes to leave/reject this world and ascend to paradise/heaven.

In heathenry, there is nothing to reject or ascend to. All worlds, all planes, the living world and the Otherworld,  all are already one complete...totality. There isn't any supernaturalism, everything is a natural part of a living and constantly interacting universe, including the dead and the gods. Middle earth/Midgard isn't a separate physical plane, but where all things can be balanced. Therefore, the purpose of heathen worship isn't to ascend, but to maintain that harmony.  

(Which is kind of ironic. Because you were a pacifist who lost yourself and I was a militant that lost myself, and here I am talking about finding balance with you. :eek:)

Another way I feel I could explain it is with Jormungandr, the Midgard serpent. Rather than a literal beast, he could very likely have represented spatial concepts to the heathen mind (I can get you a source if you'd like). The interesting thing about him is that no matter how close you get to his boundary around the earth, he constantly moves farther ahead of you, always at the horizon. Because there isn't any real separation; everywhere you go is connected to where you have been, literally and figuratively. (Any other way would be the destruction of Universal Law, or, Jormungandr "poisoning the sky"). And so it is with ideas of a Beyond.

But that's way out there stuff, and I think knowing it intellectually and feeling it are two very different things.

See, although I do believe that the true source of the divine is beyond it's own physical inherent self, I believe that everything is wrapped up together. Although we can't see it with our eyes, I believe that all planes of existence are coalescing together at the same time within the same space in an inner connected fashion. It's our, and their, lack of recognition of this that places "boundaries". Therefore, buy understanding that there are no boundaries one comes to realize that that which is beyond is already inherent and neither of the two. Yes, convoluted and confusing. It's something I'm trying to come to full grasps of too lol.

Examples would be that when we die we go to the after life and we are all reincarnated. For me, it's a new birth into another plane of existence, but it's also one that's connected to the original. You are and are not yourself, in comparison to "who you are" here and now, as you perceive yourself. It's like a transmigration of the soul. Because of how I believe, it also opens up the possibility of constant lives and deaths in an infinite way. I do not look for a heaven or a "leaving" sense. It's through these lives and deaths that the soul finds peace and balance among itself. Suffering and joy, since I believe in an interconnectedness, are perpetrated my the same hand, but it's the multiplicity it's own facets that would be able to respond to any of these stimuli.

The pacifist-militant comparison is pretty funny honestly, but I've been on both sides of the fence as well haha. After Christianity I became extremely enthused by politics and became highly inclined towards somewhat radical ideologies within socialism, communism, and anarchism. I also became staunchly anti-religious and a bit of a rabble-rouser. Ahh, the years of youth gone by, I barely knew ye. lol

The concept you brought up with Jormungandr is something very new to me, in that I've never heard anyone bring it up before. It's very intriguing.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:23:39 am by Noremac_143 »

Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2014, 02:20:40 am »
Quote from: Sage;155755
The High Days are the eight festivals that crop up in the Wheel of the Year: solstices, equinoxes, days in between. ADF Druidry celebrates them all, though depending on your chosen hearth culture the holiday in question may look different from person to person and from grove to grove. (An Irish-focused grove would have a very different way of celebrating the November Feast - Samhain - than would a Norse or Greek grove.)

Here's the ADF Rituals page to get you started.


Thank you! There's so much detailed information on here. I'm definitely going to spend a lot of time reading now :)

Juniperberry

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2014, 02:38:13 am »
Quote from: Noremac_143;155762
See, although I do believe that the true source of the divine is beyond it's own physical inherent self, I believe that everything is wrapped up together. Although we can't see it with our eyes, I believe that all planes of existence are coalescing together at the same time within the same space in an inner connected fashion. It's our, and their, lack of recognition of this that places "boundaries". Therefore, buy understanding that there are no boundaries one comes to realize that that which is beyond is already inherent and neither of the two. Yes, convoluted and confusing. It's something I'm trying to come to full grasps of too lol.


This reminds me of something Faemon said in another thread:

"I've been catching up on Joseph Campbell's Mythos (hosted by Susan Sarandon) and I thought it was interesting when he said, "When a deity like Yahweh in the Old Testament says 'I'm final', he is no longer transparent to transcendence. He is not, as the deities of the older cultures, a personification of an energy which antecedes his personification. He says, 'I'm it.' And when the deity closes himself like that, we too are closed like that, so we're not open to transcendence, either--and you have a religion of worship." Whereas, when the deity opens, you have a religion of identification with the divine, and I can see that Campbell, while he was said to consider it inappropriate of Westerners to be looking to Eastern philosophy for spiritual fulfillment, appeared very much on the side of personal transcendence when he continued that, "We're particles of that mystery, that timeless, endless, everlasting mystery which pours forth from the abyss into the forms of the world."

That opacity to transcendence (whatever transcendence means, really--a personal journey to heroism?) is something that I sort of perceive to a smaller degree in the devotionals of paganism--which is completely fine, by the way, but it's just not for me. I'm a hubristic little hooded mage.



Quote
Examples would be that when we die we go to the after life and we are all reincarnated. For me, it's a new birth into another plane of existence, but it's also one that's connected to the original. You are and are not yourself, in comparison to "who you are" here and now, as you perceive yourself. It's like a transmigration of the soul. Because of how I believe, it also opens up the possibility of constant lives and deaths in an infinite way. I do not look for a heaven or a "leaving" sense. It's through these lives and deaths that the soul finds peace and balance among itself. Suffering and joy, since I believe in an interconnectedness, are perpetrated my the same hand, but it's the multiplicity it's own facets that would be able to respond to any of these stimuli.


You'll probably understand when I say that the idea of reincarnation freaks me out simply because I don't want to lose me. But honestly, all my life I've felt like I've been taking notes for the next one. Like, "Ok, I'll remember to not ditch school as often next time," or "Next time I marry Mr. JB, I'll remember to do this this way".

One of the reasons I'm almost too-spiritual is this time in church when I was maybe four or five and the pastor is talking about Daniel in the Lion's Den. I had this flash or memory of being a man in the darkest, narrowest hole and begging the smallest pinpoint of light up top for another chance. Whatever it was always stayed with me and left me wondering if this is my second chance and how badly am I screwing it up. :(

Quote
The pacifist-militant comparison is pretty funny honestly, but I've been on both sides of the fence as well haha. After Christianity I became extremely enthused by politics and became highly inclined towards somewhat radical ideologies within socialism, communism, and anarchism. I also became staunchly anti-religious and a bit of a rabble-rouser. Ahh, the years of youth gone by, I barely knew ye. lol


Well, now you have to tell us. ;)
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2014, 04:00:56 am »
Quote from: Noremac_143;155751
Free materials are definitely the most useful. I'll probably check out the mailing lists too. Are the High Days the solstices?

If you're looking for free material on Druidry, check out the Druid Network. Their site is full of free materials and even two free Druidry courses. If you want to join them, it's very inexpensive, but anyone can use the materials, member or not. http://druidnetwork.org
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2014, 11:51:47 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;155764

You'll probably understand when I say that the idea of reincarnation freaks me out simply because I don't want to lose me. But honestly, all my life I've felt like I've been taking notes for the next one. Like, "Ok, I'll remember to not ditch school as often next time," or "Next time I marry Mr. JB, I'll remember to do this this way".

One of the reasons I'm almost too-spiritual is this time in church when I was maybe four or five and the pastor is talking about Daniel in the Lion's Den. I had this flash or memory of being a man in the darkest, narrowest hole and begging the smallest pinpoint of light up top for another chance. Whatever it was always stayed with me and left me wondering if this is my second chance and how badly am I screwing it up. :(



Well, now you have to tell us. ;)

 

I've heard that type of thing from many people when it comes to reincarnation. In a weird way, I find it a bit more comforting. I've never had that type of experience before. I can understand why it could make someone a little "too-spiritual".

In terms of the rabble-rouser thing, I'm romanticizing my youthfulness in a stupid way. In the bluntest of terms, I was a little asshole that thought it was fun to get in arguments with people I thought weren't as smart as me. I'd try to tear down their beliefs and hurt their feelings to try and prove that "they were wrong". I started to idealize myself as a "social justice warrior" of sorts.

I was raised in an fundamentalist Pentecostal family; the son of a preacher. I became a very judgmental youth, but in my mid teens I left Christianity. A few years later I became progressively more anti-religious and a somewhat combustible person. I was dealing with depression and I became a very misanthropic and nihilistic. I, again, found myself becoming someone I different find myself comfortable with. I was at my worst with that about 3 years ago, that's when it reached it's peak.

Then I started to re-evaluate my life and I tried to go back to a pre-political mindset. One of the last religions I was interested in before entering into the agnostic (and eventual atheist) area I was in was Buddhism. It helped me really get back to a spiritual mindset that hasn't left me since.

Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2014, 11:52:28 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;155768
If you're looking for free material on Druidry, check out the Druid Network. Their site is full of free materials and even two free Druidry courses. If you want to join them, it's very inexpensive, but anyone can use the materials, member or not. http://druidnetwork.org


Inexpensive is always good. I'll take a look at this. Thank you :)

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2014, 07:36:42 pm »
Quote from: Noremac_143;155405
I'm skirted around the pagan community for, around, the last five or six years. Ever since I left Christianity about 7 years ago, I've never been part of "specific" religion and I've been on the outskirts of quite a few different "spiritual paths". I've dabble in almost everything since then, but never really "sticking" with anything. Because of how generalized some, definitely not all, of my beliefs are, I feel like I fall into multiple different groups, while always being an outsider at the same time. Going with that, I pool from large group of ideas and ideologies, some of which I'm not sure even apply to paganism at all.



You also might want to see if there's a Unitarian Universalist congregation in your area. It's structured like a church, but much broader than Christianity, so the members share common values and philosophy that emphasizes the goodness of humanity, nature and making the world a better place. I like it because it gives me a stable place to grow spiritually, and connect and discuss ideas with people with different views. Some UU churches have a CUUPS chapter (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans) Mine doesn't but is still Pagan-inclusive.
Here's a link to give you an idea of it:
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/welcome/index.shtml

For Heathenry, the Troth http://www.thetroth.org/ is very inclusive and anti-racist in its policies.

Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2014, 02:09:25 am »
Quote from: Tanbrid;155877
You also might want to see if there's a Unitarian Universalist congregation in your area. It's structured like a church, but much broader than Christianity, so the members share common values and philosophy that emphasizes the goodness of humanity, nature and making the world a better place. I like it because it gives me a stable place to grow spiritually, and connect and discuss ideas with people with different views. Some UU churches have a CUUPS chapter (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans) Mine doesn't but is still Pagan-inclusive.
Here's a link to give you an idea of it:
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/welcome/index.shtml

For Heathenry, the Troth http://www.thetroth.org/ is very inclusive and anti-racist in its policies.


I've been interested in joining Unitarian Universalism for a long time, but we don't really have any congregations around here; I'm in a pretty rural area.

I was looking at the Troth quite some time ago. It's definitely something worth looking into

Hipporadish

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2014, 03:34:36 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;155768
If you're looking for free material on Druidry, check out the Druid Network. Their site is full of free materials and even two free Druidry courses. If you want to join them, it's very inexpensive, but anyone can use the materials, member or not. http://druidnetwork.org

 
Very helpful link. I will definitely be taking a look at the materials 😀

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2014, 07:03:55 am »
Quote from: Noremac_143;155938
I've been interested in joining Unitarian Universalism for a long time, but we don't really have any congregations around here; I'm in a pretty rural area.

You might be interested in the UUA's online/long distance ministry Church of the Larger Fellowship. There are weekly sermons and a minister assigned specifically to look after folks who aren't near UU congregations.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 07:04:23 am by Sage »
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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2014, 08:49:05 am »
Quote from: feigi;155717
"Pagan" is a term that covers all nature based religions...

 
This is not entirely accurate.  A pagan religion, as we define it here on TC, is any religion that is non-Abrahamic in nature that also self-identifies as pagan.  

It is likely that there are nature-based religions out there that do not self-identify as pagan; to call them pagan would therefore be inappropriate.
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Noremac_143

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Re: A little help with choosing a path?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2014, 01:34:23 am »
Quote from: Noremac_143;155405
I feel like I fall into multiple different groups, while always being an outsider at the same time. Going with that, I pool from large group of ideas and ideologies, some of which I'm not sure even apply to paganism at all.

It's ironic that I posted this, to the day, a month ago. Where does the time go?

Anyway, I did a lot of soul searching and I've ended up in an area quite removed from paganism. The religious tradition I'm "involved" in is Sikhism. I've been communicating with quite a few individuals for some time and I think I've found a religion/spiritual path that actually fits me.

I do have to say thank you to all the people that commented on this original post. People trying to help is always a good thing. I've always believed that every person that you encounter is a gateway to something new. No matter how big or small an impact they make on your life, or vice versa, it's still left a mark on the life of someone.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 01:37:31 am by Noremac_143 »

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