Author Topic: Making sense of it all... (Read 2626 times)

Tegan · « **on:** July 17, 2014, 09:10:41 am »

So I suppose I should start with where I've been, a bit of background.
I was raised somewhere in between a twice a year Christian and an every Sunday Christian. In high school, church was mainly attended to please my Grandma. When I got to college, I started looking for friends, since I didn't really have any, and the first group that was friendly happened to be a church. I joined, didn't realize what "Born Again" really meant, but stayed with them for 3 years. We did have fun, they accepted me, but something always felt off. I wasn't completely believing what they were telling me. I told them I believed, but I was really having some issues, especially when the subject of marriage and finding the one you were meant to be with. I knew there was no way I'd be happy in the type of marriage and relationship they wanted for me.

About 2 years into being with them, one of my church friends invited me to an RPG (World of Darkness, Dungeons & Dragons, that sort). The other members of the RPG just happened to be the local Pagan crowd. Almost immediately, I started hanging out with them. They didn't shun me because of my "born again" status, they didn't try to put me in a box. They were friendly, open, helpful. They actually wanted to hang out with me (like going to movies or out to a bar) when most of what the church friends wanted to do was do church stuff. And that's when it hit me...How could these people, these warm inviting people, be destined for Hell? It wasn't right... it wasn't fair. I'd finally made true friends and they wouldn't get to join me in this afterlife the church promised? I tried doing things to blend the ways. That's when I first found Brigid, the goddess turned saint. I started hanging crosses made of wheat threshes around my dorm room. It helped somewhat. I attended rituals when they were held and slowly stopped going to church.

I moved away from that town, back to my family. After several years of spiritual stagnation, I move to a different town with my boyfriend (who at the time claimed agnosticism). We move in with an atheist who is best friends with another atheist, and it felt all they wanted to talk about was how faith, belief, religion in any form weakens people. I got depressed. So much so that it affected my job, my relationship. I was a complete wreck. It was difficult, wanting to believe in something, but constantly being told why you are wrong to even have that belief.

I got engaged to my longtime boyfriend. He started claiming pagan. He honors Tyr and Perun. Then we got married. A Christian ceremony to please our family, but we have Norse Runes on the wedding rings and he proudly displayed his Perun's Axe at the reception. On our honeymoon, something strange happened though. I swear, Cernunnos was standing outside our bedroom window the entire week. To anyone else looking, they might have seen a bush that looked vaguely like it had antlers. But I saw this immensely powerful and silent presence. It encouraged me and weakened me at the same time every time I walked by that bush. He's still there in my mind. Silent and ominous, almost saying "You know the answers you seek." But still there, keeping vigil. I got the courage to claim pagan. I bought a pendant with the Gundestrup Cauldron Cernunnos image on it. I reintroduced myself to Brigid. I'm very giddy and excited for Imbolc to come around. I've had dreams about Aengus Og visiting Cernunnos, asking him for a favor since (at the time) I wouldn't have recognized Aengus Og if he'd showed up himself. I'm obsessed with Lugh right now (probably because Lughnasadh will be my first official holiday where I am not just a bystander. Although I'm not much of an achiever, so I don't know if Lugh will like me.

Anyway, enough rambling. Sorry for the long backstory, I just felt people needed to know where I was coming from. I guess I just need help making sense of it all. Any advice will be appreciated.

veggiewolf · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2014, 09:32:28 am »

Quote from: Tegan;153149

...
Anyway, enough rambling. Sorry for the long backstory, I just felt people needed to know where I was coming from. I guess I just need help making sense of it all. Any advice will be appreciated.

Hi Tegan! Welcome to The Cauldron!

It sounds like you've been on quite a religious roller coaster, and I'm glad you seem to have found something you're enjoying.

What, exactly, isn't making sense for you? It will be much easier for us to help you if we understand the parts that are confusing or frustrating, or that you have questions about.

In the meantime, I'd like to suggest that you check out some of these resources:

TC's Pagan Primer: This is a resource designed as an introduction. It includes basic information and links to more specific info on a variety of pagan topics, including "Common Questions About Paganism".

TC's Teens and Paganism FAQ: This resource was originally intended to address the kinds of questions teen pagans struggle with, such as talking to parents about religion. However, the final product turned out to include a lot of great info that is useful to new pagans of any age, including many links to very useful resources.

Seeking: First Steps & Tools: This is a well organized and user friendly resource dedicated to providing the kinds of information and explanations that many new pagans don't even know they need. The author, Jenett, is a long-time Cauldronite and experienced practitioner of a small religious witchcraft tradition. (You can read more about Jenett's background in the "About Me" section of her site.) The Seeking site includes detailed discussions of:
the basics of paganism
reaching out to other pagans
specific practices that are found in many pagan paths
some of the common questions asked by new pagans
a suggested reading list
a description of Conscious Awareness of Religious Environment (CARE) -- a method for evaluating pagan and magical groups for problematic behaviors
Each section includes numerous links to additional relevant material.

TC's Religious Special Interest Groups: In addition to folders on a wide variety of paganism-related topics, this forum also includes Special Interest Groups (SIGs) dedicated to the discussion of specific pagan paths, including practices based on the traditional religions of specific cultures. There are "sticky posts" on resources specific to each path at the top of the SIG folder, so you can easily find additional, in-depth information.

As you probably know by now, TC is a discussion and debate forum. That means posters are free to challenge assumptions, correct faulty facts, and generally disagree. This can be a bit intimidating for people who are new to paganism. So we have created three areas specifically intended as "safe spaces" for beginners, where you can ask questions about any related topic and receive answers from posters who understand that you are not yet as experienced in paganism as many Cauldronites. The beginner-friendly folders are:
Paganism for Beginners
Books and Other Resources
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
Please be sure to read the sticky posts that explain the special rules for participating in threads in those folders.

A piece of advice: TC is a bit different from most other online forums, even other pagan forums. So, we generally recommend that people who are new to TC spend some time reading threads to get a sense of the board culture here before posting questions or comments. That will help you understand how posters interact here and help you avoid unnecessary anxiety about appropriate responses.

If you have any questions about TC, our rules, the board culture, how to post, or anything else, please feel free to post them in the Board Questions, Suggestions, and Feedback folder or send a private message (PM) to any staff member. You can find a list of staff members on the right-hand side of your window.

I hope this helps (and thanks to Aster from whom I yoinked the resources links!)

-veggiewolf

Tegan · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2014, 09:49:58 am »

Quote from: veggiewolf;153152

What, exactly, isn't making sense for you? It will be much easier for us to help you if we understand the parts that are confusing or frustrating, or that you have questions about.

I don't want my gods to contradict Tyr or Perun, since those are the two my husband holds in high regard. For instance, if I leave apples for Brigid, will Perun see them as his apples? Apples mean different things for the two, from what I understand. But then I just looked at Brigid/Apples on Google while typing this and found info that denies that apple connection, so that brings me to my next issue:

I feel like every time I find information about a deity, there's something out there to contradict it.

I don't want to tell my family I'm Pagan. But I don't want to completely hide either. I picture images of the Green Man in old churches. It may sound stupid to some, but hiding in artwork really appeals to me. I'm drawn in by how close St. Bridget is to all the old stories of Brigid.

Also, when building shrines, I feel drawn to Aengus Og. I have these little ceramic birds, so I thought 4 of them on the directions surrounding a pink candle? Am I totally off the mark here when trying to build a shrine?

veggiewolf · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2014, 10:49:54 am »

Quote from: Tegan;153153

I don't want my gods to contradict Tyr or Perun, since those are the two my husband holds in high regard. For instance, if I leave apples for Brigid, will Perun see them as his apples? Apples mean different things for the two, from what I understand.

I'm not sure what you mean by contradict here, but your example is a little clearer. If you offered apples to Brigid, they would be for Brigid unless you stated otherwise. If you, for example, offered apples for both Brigid and Perun, then they'd be for both.

Quote

But then I just looked at Brigid/Apples on Google while typing this and found info that denies that apple connection, so that brings me to my next issue:

I feel like every time I find information about a deity, there's something out there to contradict it.

This happens quite a bit, depending on the deity. Your best bet to determine the accuracy of a statement (keeping in mind that a lot of what is out there is based on unverified personal gnosis, what we call UPG) is to consider the source of the information. There are some great tips on how to determine if a source is a good one on Jenett's site under Learning More and you can always ask us here (we usually have opinions!)

Quote

I don't want to tell my family I'm Pagan. But I don't want to completely hide either. I picture images of the Green Man in old churches. It may sound stupid to some, but hiding in artwork really appeals to me. I'm drawn in by how close St. Bridget is to all the old stories of Brigid.

I tend to use the concept of Need to Know when determining what to tell people about aspects of my life. If it directly involves them, then I make sure they know. If it doesn't, then I don't.

In my own family situation, my husband and I live 20+ miles from my parents, and across the country from his. Telling my parents that I am not Christian is not on my list for two reasons: (1) It has no bearing on the relationship I have with them; (2) It would upset them to the point that our current relationship would be damaged. As I don't go to church with them, or participate in any religious activities with them, it's not relevant. Telling his parents would be much less fraught but, again, it isn't relevant.

Just my $0.02. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Quote

Also, when building shrines, I feel drawn to Aengus Og. I have these little ceramic birds, so I thought 4 of them on the directions surrounding a pink candle? Am I totally off the mark here when trying to build a shrine?

I don't think so. My shrines are permanent structures that are left set up all the time (although I do sometimes take them down to restructure them). Why do you think you're off the mark?

a.walker.abroad · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2014, 11:21:50 am »

Quote from: Tegan;153153

But then I just looked at Brigid/Apples on Google while typing this and found info that denies that apple connection, so that brings me to my next issue:

I feel like every time I find information about a deity, there's something out there to contradict it.

Welcome to one of the most recurring problems in pagandom. So much info is either UPG (unverified Personal Gnosis) or come from secondhand accounts in history books or folk traditions, that contradictions abound. This is where you will often hear the phrase "do what feels right".

Quote from: Tegan;153153

Also, when building shrines, I feel drawn to Aengus Og. I have these little ceramic birds, so I thought 4 of them on the directions surrounding a pink candle? Am I totally off the mark here when trying to build a shrine?

As long as it speaks to you, and you feel it connects you with the deity or pantheon you are trying to work with, then it is fulfilling it's role as a shrine. Everything else is just detail.

Jenett · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2014, 12:54:34 pm »

Quote from: veggiewolf;153164

This happens quite a bit, depending on the deity. Your best bet to determine the accuracy of a statement (keeping in mind that a lot of what is out there is based on unverified personal gnosis, what we call UPG) is to consider the source of the information. There are some great tips on how to determine if a source is a good one on Jenett's site under Learning More and you can always ask us here (we usually have opinions!)

Some other thoughts on that, while I have a moment.

1) Apply common sense.

If someone were talking about you to half a dozen people who knew you in different ways (maybe one knows you at work or school, one is a close friend, one is a family member, one is a person you share a particular hobby with), they'd hear different things about you from different people, right?

Because you're the same person, but different things are more obvious or more relevant in some settings than in others. And yet, all those things might be true, or at least reasonable true. But at the same time, those people's comments are being filtered through their personal experiences and background, and you're having to interpret it through their choice of words.

Same thing is the case for deity information: I tend to assume that people have some reason for saying the things they're saying the way that they're saying, but that I may need more context to figure out *why* they're saying it.

You can practice this set of skills in lots of ways - look at reviews or commentary about a highly-talked about movie or TV show that you know well, for example, and you'll see that people focus on lots of different pieces. If it's a good review in quality terms, what they say will have a solid basis in fact, but you can have two different high quality responses to something that come down on totally different sides of it.

Learning how to wade through different approaches for the parts that make a difference for you specifically is a skill that pays back over and over and over again.

2) Realise you don't have to decide immediately.

One of the best skills you can develop, in my experience, is the ability to take in information, stick it in a "Not yet solid" box in your head, and play with it, look for other supporting evidence, think about the implications.

You don't have to make a choice the moment you read something about whether it's accurate or not. You can say "Okay, this thing doesn't match with this other stuff. Why is that?" And sometimes you can sort through that quickly, and sometimes it's "Yeah, I'm not sure about that, and I can't get at ways to solve it for a while."

(Either because it requires resources that you can't get at easily, or because there's a personal experience piece to it that isn't possible right now, or whatever.)

Keeping good notes helps. So does figuring out a regular point to review your notes so far and see what fits now that didn't used to and vice versa.

Tegan · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2014, 06:24:57 am »

Quote from: veggiewolf;153164

I'm not sure what you mean by contradict here, but your example is a little clearer. If you offered apples to Brigid, they would be for Brigid unless you stated otherwise. If you, for example, offered apples for both Brigid and Perun, then they'd be for both.

By contradict, I mean when choosing my gods, I want gods that will (for lack of better phrasing) get along with his. Maybe I'm overthinking. I tend to do that.

Quote from: a.walker.abroad

Welcome to one of the most recurring problems in pagandom. So much info is either UPG (unverified Personal Gnosis) or come from secondhand accounts in history books or folk traditions, that contradictions abound. This is where you will often hear the phrase "do what feels right".

It's interesting that you say it this way, because the Cernunnos-figure I keep seeing seems to say "What do you think?" or "What does your gut tell you?" I'm naturally indecisive, always going along with what other people say.