The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

"Deistic"? No, that's not what that word means.

 
The meta-category of deism is simply any religious view that acknowledges the existence of one or more divine beings.  It is distinguished from atheism, which acknowledges no gods at all, and agnosticism which claims that the existence of God or the gods is inherently unknowable.  

The style of deism that is most familiar is monodeism, which assumes a single all powerful God, which conforms approximately to the Christian concept except that It does not generally answer prayers.  This God is often compared to a watchmaker who built the Universe and set it running, but who does not otherwise interfere.

If you prefer, I could use the term "theistic," but that generally assumes that the god(s) have an independent personality, whereas deistic only assumes their existence and makes no claims about their nature.  Even confining the discussion to just variants on Wicca yields a range of opinion from a monodeistic Monad to a host of individual gods and spirits with their own desires, personalities and agendas.

An Abrahamic religion is one that is descended from the patriarch, Abraham, that is: Judaism, Christianity or Islam.  Bahá'í is also often considered abrahamic, though not all theologians agree.

The meta-category of deism is simply any religious view that acknowledges the existence of one or more divine beings.  It is distinguished from atheism, which acknowledges no gods at all, and agnosticism which claims that the existence of God or the gods is inherently unknowable.  

The style of deism that is most familiar is monodeism, which assumes a single all powerful God, which conforms approximately to the Christian concept except that It does not generally answer prayers.  This God is often compared to a watchmaker who built the Universe and set it running, but who does not otherwise interfere.

If you prefer, I could use the term "theistic," but that generally assumes that the god(s) have an independent personality, whereas deistic only assumes their existence and makes no claims about their nature.  Even confining the discussion to just variants on Wicca yields a range of opinion from a monodeistic Monad to a host of individual gods and spirits with their own desires, personalities and agendas.

An Abrahamic religion is one that is descended from the patriarch, Abraham, that is: Judaism, Christianity or Islam.  Bahá'í is also often considered abrahamic, though not all theologians agree.

I think you're mistaking deism for theism, when they're actually very different concepts. It might be to your benefit to make sure you understand a word before lecturing others on what it means.

The meta-category of deism is simply any religious view that acknowledges the existence of one or more divine beings.  It is distinguished from atheism, which acknowledges no gods at all, and agnosticism which claims that the existence of God or the gods is inherently unknowable.  

Defining paganism as deistic (or theistic) ignores those pagans who don't acknowledge the existence of deity.

The meta-category of deism is simply any religious view that acknowledges the existence of one or more divine beings.  It is distinguished from atheism, which acknowledges no gods at all, and agnosticism which claims that the existence of God or the gods is inherently unknowable.  

The style of deism that is most familiar is monodeism, which assumes a single all powerful God, which conforms approximately to the Christian concept except that It does not generally answer prayers.  This God is often compared to a watchmaker who built the Universe and set it running, but who does not otherwise interfere.

If you prefer, I could use the term "theistic," but that generally assumes that the god(s) have an independent personality, whereas deistic only assumes their existence and makes no claims about their nature.  Even confining the discussion to just variants on Wicca yields a range of opinion from a monodeistic Monad to a host of individual gods and spirits with their own desires, personalities and agendas.

I have only rarely seen this typology used for religions in the social sciences, presumably following Durkheim, who occasionally referred to "the deistic religions" in this sense (Elementary Forms of the Religious Life). I don't like the use of 'deism' as an umbrella term - it's inaccurate. For example, monodeism is quite a different philosophy from monotheism, and the use of 'deism'  as a higher-level category can therefore lead to some major misunderstandings. I'd be interested to hear why you use it in this way.

If you don't follow a specific path you could always use more descriptive words like animist, polytheists, deist, atheist, occultist. As far as witch there are terms like diviner, cunning folk, spell crafter or wise woman. Problem with any are that outside the community most people will need some type of follow up to understand what you are saying.

 
In the vein of descriptions, since you have logically reduced down to witch, and it is the connotation you have issues with, you could apply a descriptive term to witch, like plytheistic witch, hearthwitch, animist witch, etc.  Doing so still defines you as a witch, but lessens the focus on that one term, altering how others may perceive it.  Just beware of adding too many descriptive terms.  See left for an example!:o

I've been doing this little song and dance for ten years now...where I am fully aware of my spirituality and certain deities who call to me and I'm happy but when it comes to introducing or explaining myself, I am thrown for a loop.

I've wibble-wobbled over the definitions for the last few years now and I'm waffling on the best word to use. Pagan, Wiccan, Witch?

I find Pagan to be a good, general, no-nonsense term, if nondescript and umbrellas over many kinds of Pagans (and definitely suggests to me, that one is a Pagan of a certain pantheon's worship, which makes me feel all muddled when I don't necessarily 'belong' to one and only).

Wiccan is closer - but again, for me personally - I'm what is referred to as eclectic, since I don't follow any traditional forms. And, to be fair, my practice is more spiritual, everyday and even sometimes mundane; more so than religious.

So, I come down to the word "witch". And I don't like it. I find when I try to call myself a "witch" that the word is too haunted by Macbeth, colored with Hollywood's green skin, stabbed by history's pitchforks and more recently dusted off with the likes of Harry Potter, Buffy, Charmed, American Horror Story. It's too literary, too fantasy, too CGI effects, too complicated to be real for me. "Witch" feels like a disfigured word, much like many slurs I don't think I can be typed on a public forum - sure, some folks out there are proudly reclaiming these words for themselves, but I'm not a folk who feels like she can get around it easily.



Is there a better word for what I am seeking? Has anyone else struggled with these definitions?

 
On a side note: what beautiful descriptions! You are a lovely writer.

I think this is very relatable to most of us. I find myself in the same situation since organized religion gives me anxiety. I've turned to the word "witch" which I believe is not attached to any religious practice but still encompasses what I practice and what I do. With my friends, I use it and they know I'm not being silly or Harry Pottery and they have done ritual with me so they give me a sort of "credibility" that I appreciate. On the other hand, I went to Target the other day and was wearing a very small and dainty pentagram necklace and the employee asked me if I was Jewish. Reluctant to say "no, I'm Wiccan" (since I don't identify as a Wiccan), I said "No, I'm a witch." He was quiet for a minute and said "a witch?" and I smiled and said yes. Then he said ok and started to walk away to find the thing I was shopping for. I asked if I shoudl follow him and he said "Sure but dont cast a spell on me." Needless to say, I felt a little mocked.

I think the most neutral of terms to use is "pagan" in this case. A pagan is such a huge umbrella term and--if you arent of any Abrahamic faith--then it's a true one. People know what "Paganism" is for the most part or have at least heard of it and, if they havent, its a learning opportunity for them and you get to tell them it means what you want it to mean. Since it's not a limited term, it doesnt need a limited answer.

That happened to me with my (very much so) Russian Orthodox grandma. But she gave me a dirty look when I said I was a witch. Then my mom chimed in with "it's just a phase" to avoid an argument, since I was 16 and just a teenager. Psh.


 
That's exactly how I describe it when I call myself pagan. I usually say the dictionary definition is anything that isn't Abrahamic, i.e. Buddhism, Hinduism*, etc., along with saying that there's still a HUGE following of the ancient religions (Greco-Roman, Kinetic, all that fun stuff :p)

*someone please correct me if Buddhism/Hinduism/other Eastern religions don't fall under "pagan." I'm under the assumption that they do because they aren't Abrahamic.

To the OP: I describe myself as an eclectic [solitary] pagan, but I do use the term "witch" on occasion, strictly to mess with people, as I don't practice magic. I know, I'm a terrible person.

 
I was on Tapatalk and thought I could post then edit and add more on my laptop. Apparently not the case. And apparently my phone autocorrected "Kemetic" to Kinetic. Sorry.

I do practice magic in the mundane sense as the OP stated, colors, crystals, etc. But I don't really celebrate the eight sabbats, nor do I cast circles or actively use magic in the sense of manipulating the energy around me.

So it depends on your definition of witch. I'm honestly a fan of Elphaba (AKA Wicked Witch of the West), Charmed, Buffy, ALL the pop culture references. As long as they don't portray said witch as evil/bad/villianous, I'm good.

As for calling myself witch, I don't really do it to be mean, but playful. Unless they're JW's or someone else knocking on doors, I explain that I'm not really a witch, but pagan. Then explain what pagan is if they don't know. I just want the world to know that we pagans/witches/what-have-you are not bad people, and herro! we're here to stay.

On TC, the definition of "pagan" that we generally use is non-Abrahamic AND self identifies as pagan.

While there are certainly people who are Buddhist or Hindu and who self identify as pagan, my understanding is that the term is not usually applied to those religions by outsiders.

 
Especially considering the fact that there's a history of white Christian colonialists (and later religious scholars) pointing at ethnic traditions and calling them "pagan." Self identification is important when using labels.